Recovery and moving on as the fog continues to lift.....

[pinemartina]

If I had found MN three years ago,I would have run from xp within a few months of meeting him.
But then I wouldn't have my beautiful baby dd who my dc and I dote on and adore.

The dc had a fantastic fortnight in the sun.Xh2 really enjoyed spending time with them all and became very fond of baby.We really appreciated having his company - and the extra help to carry etc.I got the opportunity to swim with the older dc.

People assumed we were a "conventional" family unit..It was easier not to correct anyone who assumed xh2 was baby's Dad - and unnecessary.I enjoyed the anonymity of appearing to be like most other holiday makers in the resort..

I had lots of time to sit in the shade,b'feeding or minding sleeping baby while xh2 and dc had fun .
Lots of thinking and processing.

We were in the same place where,a year ago,baby was conceived.Where xp was with us on what then seemed the perfect family holiday..
Lots of memories were referred to by dc ,both happy one's and stuff like - "imagine if xp heard/saw that..."......xh2 was not in the least offended at xp being discussed, in sad recollection or relief....we all took a while to get used to that....
I tried explaining to xh2 what things have been like ,but showing him threads here gave a clearer picture..(so he knows me here,now..)
Thank goodness for the internet cafe on site.I couldn't post,but reading helped when I slipped into self pity...
...which I did all too frequently...

I am in no doubt whatsoever that I am fortunate to have got off so lightly.I know xp was a very controlling narcissist and that over the past three years,I came to experience as normal,his extreme and vicious verbal attacks and emotional abuse.
I read almost identical descriptions on here every day.He is "textbook".

But despite my shame, embarrassment and anger at having been so taken in,and my certain knowledge that I would now spot another loser a mile off,I am ashamed to say that I still HURT like crazy and actually MISS the fake,fantasy man that I "loved".....
Despite determined distraction and thought -blocking,I wasted many hours on holiday,longing for the man I thought I used to know
I really identified with Elmtree's thread.I sincerely believed I had found "the one". I find it hard to imagine finding any man who I could feel so strongly about.Even though I've just had a baby,I miss the great sex...

I am interested when posters are advised to get real with regards to "romance".
Is it all fantasy,the soul mate stuff? Was I immature and unrealistic to fall for that?...to miss it and long for it?....

I realise,now,that I was on a pedestal.But at the time,that felt good.What is the healthy,real life version of such attention?My self esteem is pretty high,why do I miss the fake "grooming" of a controlling liar?

Because it is grooming,isn't it?
And it is very powerful and effective.
That's the head-fuck.

Whenever another woman,by posting here, begins to discover the reality and starts to come out of the fog,I am fascinated at how some of the most understanding and heartfelt advice is given by those who have had a similar experience.
And how sometimes ,it seems impossible for someone who has not been involved with one of these men,to understand and appreciate how the brainwashing really gets you.

Now,I am staying very deliberately and consciously in the present as much as I can.Enjoying the school holidays with my dc.Trying to re connect with the woman I used to be.Defining myself as a confident,strong proud single mum of 5.
I guess I have to grieve for the loss of what I thought I had and that this will take time.

Thank you to all the women who continue to support and share on here.
I am trying to build RL networks too, and would be glad to email/chat with anyone who would find it helpful.Please skype me if you want to.

thisishowifeel - how do you feel now? Sounds like you did great there - but how are you feeling about it now?

Queen, I expect that you had the same reaction as pinemartina - that it would have meant breaking off a relationship that was still in the early halcyon phase and that might have been too weird for you.

"It was all quite calm. Every time he tried to gaslight me, I just said....'gaslighting'"

This has filled me with a sense of deep joy, the like of which I've never exactly felt before

I am feeling better today.

I lay in bed this morning after dd climbed in for a hug, and while she watched Tracey Beaker, I thought to myself....I don't want someone in my life who has friends that think I look like a prostitute, and that's ok by him. I want a partner who would be disgusted by such a thing.

I don't want someone in my life who lies at the drop of a hat. I want someone honest and honourable, like I am.

I don't want to be near someone who enjoys hurting my feelings, enjoys upsetting me and hates all my friends, who he has never met.

I think that you can tell a great deal about someone by the company they keep. My friends are lovely, soft and gentle and perhaps a touch eccentric. That's fine.

His friends are pretty much all overweight, bald narcissists. I know that sounds petty and bitchy but it is true to the point of being surreal...they really do look the same, and are completely self obsessed, they are in the main, minor celebrities...that's important to h, knowing famous people, I think he tries to coat tail his way into the limelight.

So this morning I will write the copy for my new website, and if the children allow, start putting together the audio too, two separate bits, one for my music and singing, and one for the bread and butter voiceover stuff that I do. Some people can earn bucket loads as a voice over, there's no reason why I shouldn't be one of them, and because it's all done from where I am sitting now, there are no childcare issues. I am really very lucky.

I have sent an email this morning it said:

"I am disgusted that you think it's ok for your friends to say I look like a prostitute. If a friend of mine said that about a loved one, they would no longer be considered a friend".

The more I think about it, the more disgusted I become. I can't think of anyone else in my life that would speak about another human being in such a way....they simply wouldn't!

thisis - Well done!
It sounds like something has really shifted for you.

Your voice in this mornings posts is different - direct,confident,ANGRY ! - Definitely not the saddest voice here,now !

It's fantastic to hear you talk about your career,lucky you to be able to work from home doing what you are so good at ,and enjoy.I am sure it will be a success.

I wonder if,now you have started to get angry about the photos issue,you will find so many other things coming into focus.He has done so much worse than this to you and your dc (- I know you already realise this )and although it hurt,I never heard you as angry as this.

For me,it was easier to get angry at xp not supporting me - shouting abuse at me,lets get it right!- just after baby was born.That was the one that I realised no one else in my life would ever do.But,ffs,neither would anyone else (my parents excepted)do a quarter of the things he had been doing for three years,and for which I had found excuse after excuse,or just got used to.

I was talking to a friend last night.I began to describe how I missed the smell of xp at night,still.Before I finished the sentence,I was flooded with rage and also shame and embarrassment...as I also remembered how he had continuously reminded me about how difficult and challenging it was for him to be so in love with a twice divorced single mother of four...
He told me that countless times.I was probably horrified at some early point (I hope...) but I actually agreed with him and apologised on a regular - daily- basis ,by the end!!!

I am DISGUSTED by every aspect of this.It really does wipe out my longing to fix it and make it better - now.

I really identify with your list about what you deserve from a relationship.

I can't believe I was ever so blinded - even by the handsome prince from the fairy tales,as I took him to be - as to tolerate a man who clearly couldn't have loved me.

I anyone spoke to me once just a tiny little bit like he regularly did,then I would have no more to do with them.

I have a feeling you will be moving forward more quickly than you feared a few days ago!!

Just had to put this one on record....

xp used to rant - to me- about how hopeless my xh's were.How they were letting my dc down and giving men/fathers a bad name.
This was during the xh's alternate weekends with dc,at which time,xp and I would be living like a childless couple,hotels,romantic walks,dinners etc....
Oh ,the examples he would give about the failings of these men,alongside boasts of how wonderful he had been when his own dc were small.How he couldn't understand my exes letting a marriage go when there were dc involved...he'd "put up" for 23 years for their sake.....

That's the same man who told the midwife that I'd got myself pregnant on purpose to trap him,just as I had with all my exes....

The same man who spent an entire night ,3 days after giving birth,berating me with appalling abuse, before telling the health visitor that I was mad and an unfit mother...

The same man who then left his 5 day old dd with the woman he had reported as an unfit mother,who also had 4 other dc to care for,two allegedly unfit xh on the scene,parents he knew the score on...and has since,made no contact with dd whatsoever.....

What a hero.

Oh and he's a retired SN teacher and trained family therapist....calls himself "the children's' champion"....

I am so proud to be part of this thread and watch the transformations taking place here!

ThisIs - great step forwards!
Pinemartina - you too!

I hope, I really do, that you are really feeling the differences - the shifts that are showing on here are real sea-changes, whole perception shifts - major moves forward.

Pinemartina - I believe it's a fairly well-established fact that a large number of people who train in mental health and counselling are doing so because they need the treatment themselves. Certainly when I was training in counselling, over half the people on my course were in desperate need (I was one of them) - but not all of them recognised that point (I did and did not complete my training because of it - I realised I wasn't fit for purpose). A decent course will fail people who aren't fit for purpose - we had one on our course who would have been actually dangerous as a counsellor and she was failed, despite "passing" all her exams, through lack of clinical competency. However, not all courses would necessarily be as rigorous, which is one of the problems with counselling, sadly.

I think I remember your thread about him reporting you etc. - didn't your HV see his abuse and back you up? Or was that someone else...

Anyway - Hurrah for all of you on here - keep taking the big steps, you're doing FABulously!

That's terrifying pm, that he has the potential to mess with people's heads professionally.

It's the sheer amount of projection that gets me. EVERYTHING thay accuse others of, is them.

h says that "teachers have no input valve" He has no input valve, he can't take in and compute that he has problems that have cost him a very bright and beautiful wife and and two stunning children.

Another of his favourites: "fine words butter no parsnips". Indeed, his words mean nothing. Action is what counts.

The only "terrible parent" around here is him.

Me again!

Had a barrage of emails today...which I was expecting.

He finally rang.

He is really struggling and sad, so I stood my ground. I said that I did not want psycho's who call women prostitutes, or their friends anywhere near me, as I consider men who use that kind of language very dangerous, the kind that murder women. (Some may think that over the top, I don't.) He said he had dealt with it. So I said, you don't sound very angry, like a normal husband would be.

He asked what I was doing, I said writing copy for my site, which I now want to run past some friends for there opnion. He asked if he could be one of those friends.

He wanted to come and see dd, so I said whenever you want. He mentioned France.

I said that nothing else can happen until he takes full responsibility for his mental health and the damage he's done. He said "what about the damage you've done" I said I point blank refuse to have a conversation that gets twisted back into gaslighting me. You take responsibility, you learn, you speak to your "therapist". I've done my bit. Actions speak louder than words, and another of your favourites....fine words butter no parnips.

He just can't help himself, can he!! How long did it take - 10 minutes? And well done again - are you feeling stronger each time you have one of these encounters where you come out "on top"? (sorry, can't think of a more appropriate phrase, I know it's not about "winning" or "losing" but about being true to yourself and keeping your dignity)

Yes I do feel stronger each time. The thing is, that he's going to be around as he is dd father, so dealing with him is unfortunately necessary.

I genuinely belive that this change is as a result of the inner child therapy. About boundaries and expectations of others behaviour toward me, and looking after the integrated little me and me now.

I am as fiercely protective of little me, (and therefore me now), as I am my own children. It's a weird sensation. It is exactly the same as the instinct to protect them, but it now applies to me.

There is one drawing I did in particular that must have really hit home deeply. It is of me at about six or seven. Very small, sitting hugging my knees, crying. Wearing a blue nightie, because my stuff was all blue, toys for boys, no dolls. I am alone. so small, so sad, so forlorn. I am protecting that tiny little mite now. She is very precious and beautiful and no one will hurt her any more.

Just made myself cry.

Oh lovey, you brought a tear to my eye too. I'll share a secret with you (ha! not much of a secret now on an open internet forum) - one of the things I did in NLP was called "re-parenting" your younger self - when I was training, there was a time in class when I lost it. I was sitting there, everything crossed, tears pouring down my face - and the instructor sent everyone home and made me do some work with him. I had a nameless, wordless pain - and it was from being a little baby - the pain was intense and awful. At that age, you have no language but the word that came to me over and over was "abandonment". ANyway, having felt abandoned as a little baby, I got to do this re-parenting thing and give the baby me a cuddle and soothe her and it's amazing how it changes part of you inside.
It's also the reason that I never left DS to 'cry it out' for long (the longest was 40mins and it was sheer torture) - I didn't want him as a baby feeling the way I did in that therapy session.

So although it's a different therapy, similar result - you become your own parent and it's that core child that needs your protection and care, so that you can transfer it to your adult self.

Once he realises that you are beyond his tricks, he may become cold and distant, I would think. You will get minimum contact with him, he may even go through solicitors instead of direct contact. But you keep going - you're short-circuiting his strategies at every turn, brilliant.

The grief is all consuming in that therapy. I was actually physically sick at one point, with the sheer physicality of the grief.

But you're right. Something very deep inside has changed.

When I look at the couple of pictures of me that were ever taken, I am so enraged that such a precious little sweet girlie could be treated in such a fucking disgusting way.

It's not happening to her, or me anymore.

BEfore I had DS, I was always amazed that people could be horrible to their own DC (and I wasn't very keen on children myself) - since having DS I am completely and utterly gobsmacked that any parent could be horrible to their DC. It's a tragedy, an absolute tragedy what happens to too many DC. I am so for you that you had what sounds like a rotten childhood - but glad you have found a therapy that will help to heal the past hurts. And I bet you're a fantastic, loving mum too.

iso . I have only just read your post and I really get what you are saying, it's hard to turn things around and undo the damage that has been done and that saddens me. Of course I know good men have baggage and in my heart I know I would support and give them the time and space needed to grow, but it is hard with other issues from my past to feel I 'deserve' it.

Mt father believes that women are generally an emotional burden, but OK because we are attractive to look at.

I was bullied at school, always the left out one. So much stuff that I want to just shed that skin and emerge as a new me, but I don't know how. Because I tell myself I can do it and then something happens and I crumble and I feel pathetic.

DC's dad half admitted he had been unreasonable about stuff last week, but only after I had been reduced to apologising and taking the role of 'victim'. I could see it happening to myself but because my depression has been so overwhelming just let myself get swept along.

I have read other posts with admiration and sadness. I wish my counsellor could be here with me now because this is the me that cries out for help, but by the time I get there I will have put on my brave face and will talk and be together.

If I think of some of the stuff that happened to me happening to my own DC's I get angry and protective and want to fight for them, but when I think that it happened to me, I think I should just get over it and accept that this stuff happens. Why am I so unable to shake off the stuff and just move forward?

I am Mittz. I have decided to change my name for issue threads so I can separate bits of my life and deal with them in chunks.

I need a plan as I need the fog to clear so I can reclaim my life, however long it takes.

Good for you Mittz/PUTP. You are moving in the right direction - and there are plenty of people here to offer support, as well as your counsellor. Would you consider taking a printout of this thread to your counselling session for your counsellor to read?

That's a god idea ThumbWitch.

Is it normal to have to go over stuff several times before it starts to fall into place? I keep thinking, well I talked about that why am I not OK with it now?

Oh yes. Because you haven't necessarily got to the core of it yet. I found that I had layers around some subjects, like onions, and you have to peel the layers off to get to the central core of the issue. So chances are you're peeling layers off each time but haven't hit the core yet.

But also you might be swerving away from the core - for whatever reason - probably because it's too soon for you to deal with it in its entirety. Once you get to the core, things will fall into place - so if they're not doing so yet, you're not there yet.

BUT also sometimes what you think is the core of one issue just turns out to be a sidebranch of another issue - and sometimes you don't realise that until you get right to the core.

Another reason from the counsellor's point of view is that she/he might be sensing that you are resisting the "process" - mine said that I used to always say "yes but" to give reasons why I did things the way I did, and responded the way I did (and basically why I couldn't possibly change stuff). After a while, I stopped doing the "yes but" thing without even noticing - but she noticed it. And that was progress.

Hello, PUTP I think you deserve a bit of a hug from yourself, for deciding to be more open to your vulnerabilities.

Just supporting thumbwitch's replies to you: yes, it's normal and natural to go over the same stuff many times - in a slightly different way each time, because the issues are so ingrained into your being that it's quite difficult to spot them! It's interesting, though, that each 'pass' does make changes in you. Humans are such subtle creatures that even tiny changes make a difference.

Like thumbwitch, I tend to think of it as onion layers: at other times it's like making a sculpture; sometimes like shining a flashlight around a jumbled attic.

I'm using the word "you" in the sense of "one", by the way. Enjoy YOUR exploration! Thar be treasures in that thar attic, ye know, PUTP

Hello PUTP, I'd echo what thumbwitch and grace say and I was also thinking, depression is often such an umbrella term when in fact what we're really feeling is grief, sorrow, and anger, resentment, disappointment, despair and loss and all sorts of other feelings.

Using the word depression, not only has a way of pathologising the individual, it has a way of silencing those feelings. It can leave you believing you shouldn't be feeling them. There's a book "The New Black" which you may want to look at. I found it really helpful.

I really identified with your post about leaving a therapy session and then collapsing rather than allowing myself to do it with someone. I felt I couldn't even get therapy right. It just became something else that I believed I failed at.

The other thing is, in thinking about what you were saying about the damage. I know this may not be of any use to you, but just in case.

I don't feel I can undo the damage that's been done, but I can now live with it in a different way. I have found a way of embracing it and therefore embracing me.

It did mean I had to grief for what I hadn't had. I had to learn to forgive myself things and be gentle with my vulnerabilities and fragility. I had to really sit with my remembered feelings of helplessness and powerlessness for a time and that was excruciating. Letting go of the shame and contempt I felt for myself - underneath my perfect, cool, confident and sucessful exterior took a long time though.

The thing is, my experiences make up part of who I am, just as yours make up part of you. They help inform the parent and partner, friend and professional I am and probably you are.

I know now, those experiences and how we survived them can offer us support and wisdom and in embracing them, it doesn't mean we're not mindful of the hurt and loneliness they engendered also.

I had the sense of not even being good at being counselled because I want her to feel good about the job she is doing and If I don't do OK it might make her feel bad.

I have found this week difficult because My son was assaulted two weeks ago and it has bought back some awful memories. With his agreement that it is what he wants, we have pursued it and are pressing charges and on top of other stuff I have just got this overwhelming ache for that me who no one protected.
Mum used to say don't cry DD, you'll make Mummy cry,
told not to tell 'secrets'
My Dad and his emotional controlling,

I swing between wanting regurgitate every single bad thing over and over like having food poisoning and my mind trying to get it all out. And wanting to hide from it all again.

Your post brought a tear to my eye Thisis, I am glad you have found a way of reconciling with that you from so long ago.

When I was about my DD's age, I had a thing about Donny Osmond and was determined to save my pocket money and go to America to visit him, but it really annoyed my Dad and one day as I was playing in my bedroom there was a knock at my bedroom door and My parents and Brother were standing there with packed bags, Dad said as I was going to America they were going away also and they would see me sometime.
And 'left'.

I hid in my walk in wardrobe crying and crying and I have no idea how long it was before he revealed he was just trying to teach me a lesson .
'H' also used to threaten that we were over when I expressed strong feelings or we rowed. He repeatedly told DS that he would be put into care for his behaviour.
It saddens and sickens me.

I agree with you TW on not understanding how people can knowingly hurt their DC's. God knows I have made mistakes, but I have never felt justified of complacent about it.

What shitty behaviour from your father. Ugh. How could anyone do that to a little girl, let alone her parents?

Grrrr at your Dad's pathetic mind-games and your ex's abandonment threats to DS

Aaahhh at your sticking up for your son and helping him to choose his response

Yep, I like your food poisoning analogy! It is like that! I don't know if you've read the Stately Homes threads yet? A lot of that was about really saying it - and being 'heard'. All that keeping quiet takes a terrible toll, doesn't it?

I'm a pleaser, too - suspect most of us are. In therapy, I sometimes tell the counsellor I'm feeling I want to make her happy by saying the "right" thing. They're used to it! Once you've got that bit out, it feels easier to get back to being honest.