living in an almost sexless marriage...9 yrs

[Nienna]

Hello. I grew up thinking girls were the ones who could go off sex, or not really want it, nothing in my life prepared me for a man who prefers top watch tv in the evenings after our DC is in bed, to watch tv until midnight. or to read books, or to do work out. you name it. anything but get intimate with me, whom he suppossedly loves.
he was a virgin when we got together. a 30 year old virgin in these day and time. but we had a lot in common and i have been in so many wrong relationships i thought i found mr right.
He was always not so much into sex, but he was curious so although it was infrequent I thought that would change...we always think we change a man at the start of a relationship. I was so wrong.
he is a great friend, and very supportive, kind person. he just doesnt have interest in sex. when he got me pregnant that was a miracle, that he felt horny that day and came on to me like for the first time that year (s) without me having to arrange it. I had a hangover, so I was not driving it or asking for it as it is almost always the case.
it was very infrequent before our DC, now is RARE or not there. by infrequent I mean with luck once a month. twice a month would be a miracle. now it's twice a year on predictable days like valentines, or my bday.and also because i have ranted and argued about how neglected I feel and how it's bringing me down big time. And of course it's always me making him remember the "date" and dressing up like a slut (if I dont he doesnt get aroused at all) and setting the scene and rushing things at uni to be home, do the chores, set the mood, do the dinner and do everytihng in my power so that he doesnt feel stressed out or too tired ...either all that from me or it doesnt happen.

He has a LOT of porn mags and vids. a lot of books on sex and sexual techniques, to please a woman etc. you would think his sexual prowess is amazing. It's not. it's the most boring, lame sex in the world. No books can replace experience. and he doesnt really know how to kiss. he is half blind so he is always groping if we are in the dark, and sometimes is totLLy unflattering and a turn off...and worst of all, he has very little or zero passion. he gets tired after 5 or 10 mins....our meagre sex sessions are boring, awkward and all I end up doing is performing to satisfy my hunger for affection and closeness in my heart and try to help him feel like he is good at it to encourage him to try it more often. I am not that cruel to tell him how much he sucks at it. it would break him.

I have tried to get him to see a dr, he doesnt follow it up, after it takes me breaking down and verbally abusing him to make hiim realise this is not me over reacting, that he has a sex problem and that intimacy is what makes a couple. He doesnt thnk is that important. He could quite happily go without. I feel like I am living with a roomie. a flatmate. a good friend for whom i would do anything. everytime people remind me i am "married" or that he is my "husband" I cringe internally and feel like screaming and shouting IT'S ALL ONLY IN PAPER!!

he is agreat father, kind and patient, he works hard for us, i am finishing a degree and he supports me all the way. he never bothers me with anything. but hates it when i have a complaint about how he handles something. even if i put it nicely, at the right time,like he has asked me to, with kind words and no aggressive body language, even so, he does not like complaints. he is disabled, and i think his parents tried to never bother him with anything and let him be, to the point that he grew up very isolated, withdrawn and was bullied at school lots bec of being disabled. he has achieved a lot in life, and there isnt anyone i would rather live with, but the lack of intimacy has killed my love for him as a man, all i can love in him is the kind father, the great friend and the admirable human being. I have never cheated on him, although I have been sooo tempted. I flirt like crazy because it's the only way i can feel liked and get some form of male attention. my self esteem in shattered and i feel so lonely. I cant see a way out and the strain this is having on me is beggining to show a lot.
if i cheat on him it will hurt so much, i want it desperatley, maybe i could hire an escort? would that be cheating too? i have tried self gratification, but a toy is no substitute for the love of your husband. husbands are supposed to want to sleep with you, hwy did i end up with a guy like this?

please forgive me for the long rant. first time i ever plucked courage to talk about this online. what can i do? he wont do counselling, he said he wont talk about his private things to a stranger. he has no close friends, and he isnt close to his family. i am his only true friend, i feel i am in an impossible position. if he knew i have told my closest grilfriends, he would die of shame. but without their caring, sound advice i would have strayed a long time ago.. they help me keep my sanity. on top of everything i have to deal with, there is this underlying my entire emotional map.

Please help me. I am in tears and very upset and I do not know what to do. please help me.

Sorry for the very long message. Would love the opinion of a man on this. Thanks for your time.

I might do, I just dont want to see him upset, it would be horrible. I dont want him sad, I married him to make him happy. How ironic this is.
I would be able to separate love from sex, because I love my husband too much as the great person he is, and I know I will never find a man as special as him. So any man who would be willing to be my bit on the side, will only always be that and nothing more. If we were wealthy I would pay for it to keep it even simpler, as I would not want to delude anybody into thinking I am available.

It is good to see the input of other people, it makes you think broad and makes you aware of lots of things so far unknown. I wish my husband would dare to talk to someone, someone at all. He is just too private.

And for the record, I would be blissfully happy with once a week. I am not highly sexual, I am average. I dont need it every day, in facvt it would annoy me. Once a week would be great. If only. Last time was a month and a half ago. I initiated it because we had been away for 2 weeks and I was so hungry for his touch, and amazingly he let me, but it was as lame as ever ...but at least he didnt push me away. Going on two months now. And before that..it was feb 14th the last time.

But Orm, I suspect you aren't masturbating to porn regularly, it's the fact that the OP's H does that I have a problem with tbh, it seems selfish and cruel.

He's not a non-sexual person at all, not in the way you would describe yourself, he sounds very interested in self pleasure and porn and not at all intererested in the sexual and emotional needs of his wife.

Malificence, maybe I am not his type? painful as it is, someone suggested that to me. When I ask him he says I am talking nonsense again.

I dont know how regular he masturbates to porn, i cant see him being very regular about it as we have to look after the little one at weekends together and he is the main carer during the week as i come back too lat from uni. BUt he does this when he has his me time, because he tells me that he is making progress in this or that technique., he wants me to accept that as progress on the no sex arena, but it takes months before we try anytihng out and I just dont see what it is he has learned, it is just the same old same old from him.
I come up with new stuff but , oh well. It is pointless.

Malificence: according to the Asexuality website, some asexual people are fine with maturbation and porn, but what they really don't want is sex with a partner. It's not about the partner being the 'wrong' partner or in any way unlovable, it's about the asexual's sexuality being simply not for partner-sex.

Nienna: I do think you should talk to your partner about you seeking sex elsewhere. If he is asexual, as he sounds, this might com as a relief to him and the two of you may well be able to sort out your relationship in a way that makes you happy. It's rubbish that a couple-partnership has to include sex and monogamy to 'work'; when that model isn;'t working (as it isn't working in your case) but you want to save the relationshi in some way, you need to try a diferent model that suits the human beings actually involved in the particular relationship, never mind what your neighbours/friends/celebs might do.

Nienna is it possible that your dh has fallen out of love with you?

I only ask as I couldn't stand sex, or him touching me sexually, with an ex after i had fallen out of love with him

I may be way off the mark and i do apologise if this upsets you. I just thought of looking at it from another angle.

Solidgoldbrass, you are right, I think because he never had any friends really, never went out in a group, he doesnt have that social rapport as well developed and may find it hard to interact with others at such intimate level , even me, with whom he has been for almost 10 years, ...I will def, talk to him about me seeking relief elsewhere with someone in the same situation.
I just hope this doesnt upset him too much.
Geekoftheweek, the thought has occurred to me, that we have both fallen out of love with each other, we love each other, but not with passion anymore, and tbh I find sex with him grim, but it's the only intimate affection I am getting thus I still crave it.
I cant help feeling so guilty.

I completely agree with SGB that it is possible to be happy, even in a marriage, and get your needs met elsewhere.

It all depends on the lines of communication being open and everyone being on the same page and in agreement.

Nienna

This thread has made me feel very sad for you. I am interpeting this in a different way and I don't think it is to do with sexuality/asexuality I think it is to do with control and power.
My abusive ex witheld sex as a way to damage my self esteem and could be quite subtle about it. Basically though it made me feel less confident and increased his power.

I think you are focused on imagining an ideal relationship which is not there and that you would be happier without him as your husband.
Maybe your childhood has meant that you are more likely to stay in a less than ideal relationship.

I may be wrong but you don't strike me as the type of woman who would be happy seeking sex elsewhere and I don't think this scenario would fit with the happy ending you are seeking.
I think you would feel guilty, I think you would find it difficult to seperate sex from love/affection. I think you would be vulnereable and your self esteem would be damaged further. I also think it is likely that your husband would hold it against you/punish you further.

I'm going to quote a few things you've said and what I've drawn from your words:-

1. You have a poweful need to be loved/approved of and are try hard to please/be obedient

'I always thought if I am a good girl, and work hard, and make someone of myself, life will reward me with a great man, who will love me'

'I put him off when I am too assertive but he says I can be the sweetest girl most of the times, and that he knows this and holds onto this'

'even if i put it nicely, at the right time,like he has asked me to, with kind words and no aggressive body language, even so, he does not like complaints'

'all I end up doing is performing to satisfy my hunger for affection and closeness in my heart and try to help him feel like he is good at it to encourage him to try it more often'

'I am the temperamental type, and in the past I didnt always put it in a nice way for him'

'I always end up in a shivering heap of tears and frustration,my self esteem in shatters (it has never been high at all) and I apologise for the shouting, and he always forgives me and we always make up'

1. You have put your husband on a pedestal

'I know I will never find a man as special as him'

1. Your self worth is being eroded and unfortunately I think he may be doing this deliberately. I think withholding sex could be about control. He is meeting his own needs and denigrating you.

'my self esteem in shattered and i feel so lonely'

'It hurts so bad, I only ever wanted him, not any other man'

'He doesnt think it's such a big deal. So I make him the cuppa and leave him alone to go and cry bitter tears. If it is a day I am desperate for contact with him, more often than not he will push my hands away and say , sorry I am tired, another time?'

'tbh I find sex with him grim, but it's the only intimate affection I am getting thus I still crave it'

'He told me he finds sex a bit uninteresting, kind of overrated'

'He gets tired in the middle of it, you can tell he just wants to sleep or read a book'

'he has even acussed me of plotting to have sex with him in the past'

'He even buys these books about multiple orgasms and how as a man to control your eyaculation in order to have a better experience. It's like a tantra kind of book, but , sigh...he practices them alone'

'he did not feel aroused unless I dressed with the things they wear. I know I look good in these outfits but I cannotm, will not, always dress up for this. I am not that ugly and I hoped he would love me as I am. He said to me I have the same issues because I love it when he wears perfume. I said to him that wearing perfume was not a requisite to get me in the mood, whereas me dressing up sexy was'

'maybe I am not his type? painful as it is, someone suggested that to me. When I ask him he says I am talking nonsense again'

'I dont know how regular he masturbates to porn, i cant see him being very regular about it as we have to look after the little one at weekends together and he is the main carer during the week as i come back too lat from uni. BUt he does this when he has his me time, because he tells me that he is making progress in this or that technique., he wants me to accept that as progress on the no sex arena, but it takes months before we try anytihng out'

1. I think yuo have 'rescuer' tendencies

'he has no close friends, and he isnt close to his family. i am his only true friend'

'I do not know if his disability has any influence here. He is deaf and partially blind, i think it's called Usher's Syndrome. It did make him introverted at school and because he was bullied so much he builds walls around himself every time he is being put under pressure. I guess that's how he feels when I rant or look miserable.'

'I just dont want to see him upset, it would be horrible. I dont want him sad, I married him to make him happy'

1. He sounds cold and may be less of a victim than you think

'he would NEVER shout at anybody, even when he is right to get mad at them, he will always be calm and logical, notihng can take his cool away'

Realise this is a very long post and that it could be 'asexuality'. However, my personal experiences have made me interpret this differently and I wonder if anyone else shares these views???

Also

I don't think I'd rush to suggest an open relationship as it doesn't sound like the lines of communication are open between the two of you. You have stated that you have a 'heart to heart at least once a year' and he is reluctant to attend counselling.
I'd be wary of this conversation.

Isanotherday, thanks for taking time to analyse this in this depth. What can I say? you may be right. I am in the middle of this conflict and I cant see him being a controller ro using this over me, but you never know, there are all sorts of people in the world.
He did say he would forgive me if I strayed.
you are very right to say I am a rescuer, I am very protective and maternal, and always have been with my friends, since I was a child, I would die defending people., Got beaten up both physically and emotionally many times by defending "friends". I think I can be kind of intense. But I do love to nurture and look after people. If he is truly taking advantage of me in this sense then he is a monster, and when I realise it he will regret it. That is a promise. I have reduced him to tears myself, and he knows if I find myself wronged I am like ire personified and quite capable of being very vengeful and hurtful. Which is why I try so hard to hold onto my nurturing and caring nature, as is a much better way of chanelling my energy, is a ocnstructive and giving way.
Well, I went and tried one of those websites for married people looking for a lover, companion you name it. And I was horrified. I got this really cold feelng in my stomach to think that in a matter of 20 minutes I had at least 8 men trying to get me to chat, that have not even seen how the hell I look, had no idea if I was a pyscho or a liar, and were just deperate to get me to agree to go somewhere and get it on.
Geee-eez. Hundreds, I tell you, hundreds of people , ladies and gentlemen, with the same problem as me! Why is this so common? what is going on? I signed out, told the moderator I wanted out and they will remove me and close my account down. Not before I had to reply to at least 10 messages for gentlemen interested in me. I guess I write a bit okish that it got me that many admirers.
I wont say it didnt boost my self esteem after the initial shock, but just to think of the loistics of actually going off with A STRANGER, someone I have never met before, to exchange fluids with them? I stay celibate. I swear. Cant do it, cant, will not. It terrifies me.
If it was at least someone I know it wold be less shcoking, Somebody I know to some extent, argh, what am i saying.
I will talk to him. And soon. And will tell him very calmly and in control that I dont thnk I can wait until we have an easier life. That is this is going to be it, I will not think so highly or my marriage vows the next time temptation comes my way. Just not one of those sites were meat is up for grabs.
I will find a way to forgive myself, that is the hardest part. To forgive myself.
Thanks guys for opening my eyes to other possible scenarios. It helps.

Nienna, I recognise much of your story in my own life. I've been with DH for 13 years (today, in fact) and we have a relationship that meets the officially approved criteria for a 'no-sex' marriage (

Notthemama thanks for sharing your experience with me. I can see a lot of my DH in yours, if anything posting here has served me to see a new dimension to this conundrum. Maybe there is a way for us both to feel fulfilled. Or maybe it's just me that needs that closeness, maybe some day I can find a way around it. But I am def not leaving him and breaking our family. Not for all the intimacy in the world.

If he likes masturbating and watching porn, is there any mileage in masturbating and watching porn together?

Have a hangover more often (or act like you have one)

"he felt horny that day and came on to me like for the first time that year (s) without me having to arrange it. I had a hangover, so I was not driving it or asking for it as it is almost always the case."

I think this is the key.
Have a hangover more often (or act like you have one)

Hello there, as a Guy & a Sexual Therapist I thought I might add my tuppence worth.

There are a couple of things that stand out from your post.

Firstly he is very sexually inexperienced as you rightly point out a 30 year old virgin in this day and age is unusual.

Was it by choice or not from the lack of trying?

Secondly the porn issue, it sounds like he is interested in sex and even improving his technique but too insecure in his sexuality or sexual prowess.

The fact that in almost all other ways your relationship seems to be quite good then you might want to consider some form of therapy to help you resolve this problem.

There is some great information at this link that may help point you in the right direction.

If I can be of any help let me know.

dogfish: thanks for your honestly. I am becoming more and more convinced of this. He does think I am vary pretty and attractive, but in a sweet kind of way, there is no passion of desire behind it. It's like my best friend would find me cute and sexy. Ha s has been away recetnly for a few weeks, and yesterday complimented my look and when we went to bed cuddled up to me sweetly and said it was nice to be home. I treated him like a king, nice dinner, clean house, sweet manner, we even joked all afternoon and it felt good. But to come home and not want me, not posses me , that told me he doesnt really fancy me. He loves me, but is not in love with me.
When I go away and come back I cant get my hand off him. He did not even snog me. So I have been considering some approaches. I have been texting with a guy I met months back, just friendly texts etc. But yesdterday I made him aware that I was in a relationship and if he wanted to continue to hang out with me he had to be aware of this fact. He said he also wasnt free so we are now on the same boat.He also now flirts heavily with me and that gets my blood racing. It is excatly what I miss in life, to know a man finds me desirable and attractive. So although this man is not my type and I dont want anything with him, I will see him every now and again, and flirt my socks off with him. If it happens it happens. I realised since I have his attention, I am not resentful anymore towards my husband, and can in a way love him for what he is and feel at peace at home. Feel happy, look happy, which I wasnt until recently. I was always so frustrated.
The stress started again today and I didnt feel stressed. Shame I have to resort to another man's attention to feel balanced. I was rather naive about marriages, and felt that once you find a decent man, the rest comes by default, happily ever after. Alas, I was wrong.
Thanks for wishing me luck, your post made me shed a few tears, I have been trying so hard for something that wasnt there, it seems.

lifeinlimbo that is sooo funny. It made me laugh.
westlondon although I have decided allow myself to flirt and maybe something else someday with my new acquaintance, I havent altogether given up on my adored husband. I began by letting him now i will change his diet a bit to improve it, then I very very sweetly will suggest a health check, later on ...I have bought two books, the sex starved wife and one about loving someone but not being in love with them. I have also contacted Jo Hemmings to see if there is anything I havent tried with my husband. Lastly, but not least, I would love to get some advice from you. could you send me an email where I can contact you?
I have a mixture of feelings of fear, and elation, I have never thought of cheating before and this saddens me. I also think if I told him he would be very sad. But I have so far never had secrets for him, so I am a bit reluctant. But I am more desperate than reluctant so we will see. I have tried, havent I? good grief, life is so complicated.

thanks.

I have been with someone else. The amount of release I got from it was immense. I had no idea how hungry for intimacy I was. My mind was detatched from my body as I looked at myself and could not believe the hunger, the need that drove me. I would never do this to anybody, and I know DH never meant to hurt me but I just realised where the root of my misery lies. Human beings need love, affection. I now have a whirlpool of emotions going through my head. On moments I feel so bad I have considered ending my life , if only briefly, but on others I feel elated, complete as a woman ,for the first time in so many years. I dont know where this will go from here, buit if this buys my marriage time by sating my thirst until DH catches up, then I shall consider continuing. I am flawed and imperfect, but gods I did try. At least I have now taken responsability of my own happines. So much risk, so much to lose, and so much to hope. I am calm and chirpy around him for the last few days, and he looks relaxed and not tense. I cant believe this is what it took. But I didnt make life, it has its own strange rules.

Nienna, is there the slightest possibility that your views that he is boring and monotonous in bed are being made obvious to him, even if it is subconsciously? His partial disability may have given him low self confidence to begin with and perhaps there is a chance that he is reading those sigals and they are reinforcing his lack of self belief sexually? You said he would die of shame if he knew that you had told your closest girlfriends. Shame isn't usually associated with adamant disregard.

dear mrleebob , I have never told him this, how could I? He is someone who likes to be left alone, to work things out in his sweet good time, and because he usually succeeds as he is very intelligent, he does not understand that some thing sin life need to be done faster, to come up with results quicker.
He once told me he is not very good company, at the start of our relationship. If only I had listened. But i was smitten, i thought i could change him , improve him, bear with him. he is such a great guy, shame he doesnt enjoy sexual closeness with who lves him so much.
he doesnt like his things to be known, he is a very private person, and yes, he doesnt like criticism, and i assume is because of shame. But I cant be sure. He doesnt like the fact that I go on websites like these to find info, to offload, or ring my friends, he keeps everything to himself, everything. He would NEVER go to anybody for advice, or to talk. I have come up against a wall.

His love making is dull mainly because he has no passion, his arousal isnt deep, he doesnt display that animalistic drive men do when they are highly aroused. I have had a fantastic if painful reminder of how passion can get a man to say and do things to a woman which in turn will arouse her and please her. After desire is the best afrodisiac.
He has lots of books about techniques, and he has impressed me in some foreplay stuff in the past, on valentines day sessions of course, which is the day he feels compelled to get the lover card out, but other than that...
He gets tired easily, and you can tell he isnt really into it, or wants it, he will if I dress like the girls on the porn mags, but even after ages, not orgasming tires him and it sizzles out. I have even suggested watching porn together and acting on it, nothing makes a diff. I have exhausted my arsenal and my patience for the time being, it is draining to constantly ponder at a problemn in the back of your head, day and night. it's like a black cloud.

Can he be gay?

CoteDAzur, we have talked about this, and he always says no, it's not that, that he likes girls. So I concluded I am not his type.
I do sometimes wonder, it would make our lives much easier if he came clean with what he really wants. Provided he wants anything sex-related, that is. My head is bursting with hypotheses, and there is not one friend I can confide into, because they would all be horrified. Someone told me, when I complained again about the neglected again, that she was sorry it gets at me so much. She is rather young and has never been married, and enjoys a nice sexual life with her bf, I do wonder if she would say the same if she was in my shoes. I have been about to blurtt it to him several times now, I am used to sharing everything with him, tell him everything. He will be so hurt if he finds out, but I feel I have been pushed into this corner. It makes me sad to think how many friendships I would lose if it got known I have been with somebody else and might do it again. People are so quick to judge when they have no idea of what you go through. Oh well. I will have to keep this secret. Thanks for being there, you really help me keep my sanity.

You seem to have adopted a role of this man's carer, and at the same time you blame yourself for his not wanting you.

Have you never thought of getting angry with him for disappointing you as a husband?

You are being soooooooooooooo understanding that it lets him off the hook completely.

There are sexless marriages out there- I have a friend who has not had sex for 10 years. She withholds sex on the basis that he doesn't treat her well and they have no emotional or physical intimacy, thought they are millionaires and have a lovely life from the outside. Neither of them appears to want sex- she doesn't have much of a sex drive it seems.

I have an experience slightly simialr toyours, but not quite thesame. I had a boyfriend once who was a 35 yr old virgin. he wanted me desperately then after we had a couple of times he became psychologically impotent through guilt- we wee not married and he had had a very strict upper-class childhood. This went on for 4 years and during the 3rd year I took a lover. he never knew though afterwards when I confessed he said he thought it had been a possibility as I seemed more relaxed.

In the end, I left him as it seemed that he would never change. It was a very very hard thing to do as I did love him, and he loved me.

I think you need to at least consider that you might leave this man, or accept that you will have short or long relationships outside your marriage- but that's a can of worms as the other men will have feelings too.