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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can anyone help me with a relationship problem...

88 replies

AnyFucker · 12/07/2010 16:44

OK, I am going to have to be a little bit vague, sorry about that. I don't want anyone recognising a RL situation.

My best mate has been strung along for several years by a user. He has been unfaithful several times, still in intimate contact with his ex-wife (mother of his dc)all this time and has now finally begun another relationship with a mutual friend.

He has contributed to a very much dimiished financial situation she now finds herself in.

For a couple of reasons she is, and was, very vulnerable when they met. They are very identifying, so not going to spell it out. But it took the form of a devastating loss.

OK...now.

She seems unable to let him go. She doesn't want hm back, but says she would take him back tomorrow.

He lives nearby and is in constant contact/drives by her house/rings/texts etc. She is on medication. He has something over her (financially) which means he is drawing out something over a long period of time. I think this is a way to keep her hanging and is actually a form of emotional torture, tbh.

I don't know how else to help her. I have said all the obvious things. Cut contact completely/build up your own self-esteem/you are worth more/he is no good for you etc etc etc. We have been away together and talked, talked, talked. She has seen her GP, several times. Refused counselling.

She tells me all she needs to do is meet someone else and she can move on. I think she is vulnerable to another fuckwit and should look after herself for a while. Deaf ears

Please give me some insights. I feel I am rapidly using up my itinery of help I can offer. I am not walking away, far from it, but just wondered if there was something I could say to get through ? Or not...and wait it out with her ?

Anybody else been in a massive pit of self-pity and not seen any light ? She has talked of going to sleep and never waking up but don't think (I bloody hope...) she isn't serious about suicide. What helped you, if you have been there?

I have resisted speaking to him so far (we used to socialise a lot as a foursome). Does anyone think I should have a word ?

Sorry for long post, and if you feel there are bits missing...there are, tbh.

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ItsGraceActually · 13/07/2010 00:02

AF, posting before reading entire thread. Apologies for any resultant faux pas.

Your poor friend seems to be in a very similar bind to my own after splitting with Twunt Two, and you know what horrific damage that shit wrought on my mental, financial & social health. Instead of a straight split, we entered into an absurdly complicated agreement that involved renovating two flats, ending up with one each. He stayed in the one we'd been doing together (and was liveable), while I bought a cheaper one that needed a complete internal rebuild.

It dragged on for ever. The finances became ever more complicated and I was utterly ground down by the strain of living in a shell of a place, doing building work every night, going to work in the day (had to shower at the office as no hot water in flat) and being constantly baffled by Twunt. I completely lost track of the money, where we were at with the agreement, and why I felt so angry about it. Every time I got him to sit down with my spreadsheets, he proved I was wrong ... you get the picture.

I had 2 breakdowns & lost my job. My finances became more & more pickled. I took out extra loans. He only ended this absurd agreement when his new fiancee insisted. He ripped me off royally, and I am certain he gained a great deal of satisfaction from his control over me.

During that time, I was seeing therapists who kept saying they felt I should get out of the agreement - but I felt utterly trapped in it. Nobody helped me de-confuse the figures. Friends tried to help me out with money, bless them, but it all sank in The Project and I'm sorry to say I still don't know where it went. It was a lot of money.

I sought professional advice from several sources. The advice I received was atrocious! I'm STILL finding out what bad advice I was given, and how much further along my recovery I'd be now, had I been well advised

I haven't read enough to know exactly what your friend's problems are, but here's some (good!) advice:

Sit down with her for a couple of days, going through her finances with a nit-comb. If you're not the person to do this, find someone. When I met Twunt, I was quite the financial wizard. By the time my flat was due for repossession (yes, just as I finished the work), I had absolutely no idea where the money - and my power tools! - had gone, nor why I didn't know. That part was the worst. I hired people to help me. They didn't.

I have only just found out - last Friday, in fact - that I should have been advised to apply for bankruptcy BEFORE my credit ran out. In complete opposition to the advice I received from the CCCS and various solicitors, I should have ignored all correspondence & requests for information from creditors, and refused to consider IVAs. Apparently (I now know) this is the correct advice if you owe more than £15,000 and have little left to lose.

First and foremost, keep her alive. She's been to the doc and got meds, which is good. If she son't go for talking therapies, get her to start journalling. Sketching is also good - I used to buy those pretty books with nice art paper in them for my diaries, and draw in them as well.

Take her out for nice meals, get her round for pizza & a DVD, that kind of thing.

If she's lost control of everyday things, go round with another pal and do all her housework.

GET THE NUMBERS SORTED. When the picture is crystal clear, go through it with her in your own special, no-nonsense way.

Get an appointment with a CAB money/debt advisor (though I got bad advice from one of them, the CAB is also where I got the good advice on Friday.)

Make sure she knows that letting go is often the only sane & viable option. You can let go of far more than you thought (in every sense) and find life becomes more manageable as the 'stuff' goes.

Good luck! Hope at least some of that was useful; will read your thread properly in the morning

LittleMissHissyFit · 13/07/2010 00:37

bloody hell grace! Amazing post from a (clearly) amazing woman!

PeppermintPasty · 13/07/2010 07:42

oh grace,that sounds awful...i did say a good solicitor...sounds like you had a right royal time of it. if you haven't already, go to the legal complaints page of the Solicitors Regulation Authority website for info.www.legalcomplaints.org.uk/home.page

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 13/07/2010 07:45

Excellent advice from grace there. Please do sort out the finances so they are clear. Again as was said before ass long as there is a trail showing she gave him the money it will back ip her claim. She may be liable for the loan, but he is liable for the debt to her, and if he's been paying her back at all then it shows it was a loan.

She must stay on the ads, they will be beginning to work sometime in the next week or two. If there isn't a change then she might need to change the type of meds.

He will have told her he's doing her a favour paying her anything because he doesn't have to. This is not true.

Put it to her like this, what kind of man would want her back if she behaves like a doormat? He's far more likely to want her if she stands up for herself and shows she doesn't need him.

I hate appealing to her desire for him, but if that's the button that needs pushing then push it, until the practical stuff is done.

TotalChaos · 13/07/2010 07:56

fab advice from grace, something you can get your teeth into with her, rather than having the same groundhog day conversations about men/relationships.

AnyFucker · 13/07/2010 08:19

Grace, thank you for sharing that

Ok, practical stuff.

"Letting go"

If it were up to me, I would let the money go too (it is less than 10k). I know that is a lot of money, but she could save that back over time and it would be worth it (to me) to no longer have that excuse for any more mindgames with him. She is fixated on it though, as a matter of principle. Fuck principles, I say. He has fucked her over in sooooooo many other ways, what's a few quid ???

I haven't pushed that though, as I suspect she is hanging on to this for other reasons...I should bust her on that, I think, now.

There is evidence, as he has arranged to pay back a sum into her account every month. He does pay summat....but much less than was agreed...the evidence is there though.

Thanks crunchy, she is a strong person normally, very independent and totally fearless with some things. With him...gah.

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YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 13/07/2010 08:28

We all get stupid sometimes af. Not me though, oh no, never...

If he's been paying it back then surely she has plenty of evidence, especially since he's been gone so it's clearly not a contribution to rent or food.

She'd be better off going down the legal route and making the repayments more official.

AnyFucker · 13/07/2010 08:30

I know x

Re. the stupidity. We have all been there....

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AuntieMaggie · 13/07/2010 09:07

Sorry - I wasn't clear I didn't mean she should jump into a relationship with another bloke, but by being around people outside her normal circle including nice blokes that treat her in a way that she hasn't been in the past may open her eyes. Hearing that you shouldn't put up with this treatment from an independant source or just being treated like the nice person I expect she is.

Can you socialise in places that you don't normally go?

One of my friends in particular started socialising elsewhere (though not through choice) and made some lovely new friends including male friends, who helped get her out of this cycle.

AnyFucker · 13/07/2010 09:11

Good thinking Maggie. A bit difficult at the moment as she is resistant and child care issues (for us both), but will work on it

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ItsGraceActually · 13/07/2010 14:47

I agree with you about letting the money go, AF. He's using it as a tool to keep her dangling. If she's feeling like I did, it will have worked on her: she won't be able to tell the difference between money and love (which is probably true of him!)

Clarifying everything has to be a step towards reality. That feeling of helplessness just gets embedded in you. It would be useful for her to see, exactly, how her other problems are caused by him using her - and how she may go forward WITHOUT any more payments from him. I think she needs lose her feeling of dependence on him; if she can get to a place where she cuts the tie so much the better!

Suing him for the money would still feel like a hope of gaining 'satisfaction' from him, imo. She could do it - but how much use would a £5 a week court order be, especially as he's likely to default & go back to bamboozling her?

Facts, figures and Doing Something are more important than the emotional mess atm - she can't think straight about her feelings while she has no sense of being in charge of her own life. I agree with Crunchy about pulling her strings for her own benefit, if that's what it takes! (Even if she believes she should write the loan off as a favour to him ...)

Good for you She's a lucky woman.

ItsGraceActually · 13/07/2010 14:55

Yes, sorry, I could have answere far more quickly by saying Yes, AF, bust her on it!

AnyFucker · 13/07/2010 16:13

Thanks, Grace

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