Archers thread #203: It's Affair Cop! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you would love to attend Pip's wedding with Natasha and the starry twins, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-12-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Starting the new thread a bit early as I'm not sure I'll have much internet access for the next few days. Fill up the old one first. And then - over to you!

(Credit for the thread title goes to @TripleSulko.)

Lily getting accidentally pregnant would be silly. He's on the rebound, thinking with his dick, love bombing her ... She's unlovable IMO. Unlike her darling sibling Freddie. She has fewer good points than the young Lizardbreath had, other than she grew up in a stately home.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , What nearby family will Kirsty's baby have? Jakob and Kate.
As seen often on here, 'it takes a village', Kirsty will have that village.

(I don't like that expression because on here it seems to be used as an 'it's so unfair that I have to bring up my own child', but I am aware that my parents' friends and neighbours helped enrich my childhood by being kind, arranging events, looking after us when we were playing with their children etc.)

@ExOptimist , You think I was judgemental because I thought Kirsty was more likely to get PND as she has very little support? No, you said I forgot that Kirsty wasn't using contraception, silly idea when Erik is hardly around and she's got no family support. She should be the one who is much more likely to get post natal depression.
Not a silly idea when you are 44 and would love to have a baby.
You sounded like you want her to suffer from PND.

I've never understood why being called judgemental is a criticism.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1)
...

I've never understood why being called judgemental is a criticism.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1)

…unless people judge someone to be nice, kind etc then its OK apparently.

The Lily/Harrison storyline will hopefully have some significant event though even if not an upduffing. It’s too rich a source not to make the most of it ( although the SWs do love to miss a golden opportunity - see Natasha’s spending habits).

I've not seen It's a Wonderful Life, or a lot of Christmas films including Love Actually.

@Sidebeforeself , it's a word with different nuances. Judgmental can mean something like 'overly critical of something/someone' or 'to do with judgement'.

Saying someone is nice or kind is not being judgemental. There's a judgement that's been made but it's not a judgemental one.

How then is a negative judgement to be expressed without being proscribed as "judgemental"? It may be my judgement that something or even someone is mistaken, pernicious, deplorable or plain wrong, but I seem not to be supposed to say so.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , surely you can make a judgement without being overly critical.

I could judge a woman in what is essentially a FWB situation choosing to allow herself to become pregnant negatively without describing her as silly.

You can describe something or someone as mistaken, pernicious, deplorable or plain wrong if it is your considered opinion. You could be being judgemental, but I don't think anyone other than you is suggesting that you aren't supposed to.

It seems though that they will be judgemental about me, if they disagree. All very subjective. I don't see how it is really possible to be overly critical about Putin's invasion of Ukraine, for instance. Is it? Is it merely a judgement to say he did, and has stuck with, a very bad thing, or is that judgemental? Presumably that depends entirely on who is judging me for saying it: a Russian might not think he was wrong to do as he did, after all.

I wish I could remember the context of the chap who said regretfully that it seemed he had been mistook in his judgements....

Oh, no, hang on, I can: it's in Captains Courageous, said by Disko Troop right at the end or nearly so. The full confession was "I wuz—I am mistook in my jedgments—worse'n the men o' Marblehead." Being able to admit that you got something wrong is a dying art, like navigating a coracle on the Severn: that was written in 1896.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , I think maybe you think too much.

@Sidebeforeself , Natasha's spending habits haven't been forgotten. Far from it. Wait and see.

This has all come about because I said Kirsty was silly to have become pregnant as a moreorless single parent with hardly any support. I hardly think that "silly" is an overly critical word.

That is my considered opinion, which you criticised by accusing me of being judgemental, thereby being judgemental of me yourself.

Therefore you have directly contradicted your last paragraph, because by calling me judgemental, which you have earlier agreed is a negative term, you have implied that I shouldn't express my opinion unless it's couched in words which you approve.

I really can't see why people shouldn't express their opinion, even if negative, on a fictitious middle aged woman in a soap opera, without getting called judgemental and ageist, for crying out loud. I seem to be coming up against the "be kind" brigade, not something I expected to find on a thread about the Archers.

Tough, @ExOptimist. You called Kirsty silly. Her situation isn't ideal but the poor woman took her last opportunity of motherhood.

I seem to be coming up against the "be kind" brigade, not something I expected to find on a thread about the Archers

Perish the thought!

The Archers threads are more Alice Roosevelt Longworth "If you can't say something good about someone, sit here by me."

Well, I'm someone who made a similar decision nearly 50 years ago albeit younger than Kirsty but with less support. I never regretted it and don't think I'm silly so I'm coming at it from that angle.

Kirsty has been an ass any time this century, though. She hung about Tom Archer, for goodness' sake (which is why she has left breeding for so long; she wasted best part of fifteen years on him) – even after he two-timed her, and chucked her not once but three times in favour of either his own self-interest or some other woman. After that, it'd be a bit strange to think her other than silly. Not to mention she came back to Ambridge, where she had only actually lived for a very few weeks with her as-it-turned-out totally unreliable fiancé, after she'd escaped from the forcefield. She is irredeemably daft!

I stand by my opinion. No amount of you having a go or trying to make me feel bad is going to change my mind, so you should stop wasting your time( on a fictitious woman).

I liked Clarrie standing up for Keira and the fact she should be focusing on her GCSEs as Clarrie wants more for K than C has for herself.
Eddie goes through life with a blasé attitude whilst Clarrie has to do most of the worrying.

Kirsty is a homeowner, is employed and old enough to know her own mind. Having been let down by her fiancé and her husband, I'm not surprised she wants to go alone.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime , Kirsty's taste in men has always been dubious.
Kate's, other than the Toby incident, has been good.
It must be a bit hard to find the right person when you're limited to Ambridge.

@CaptainMyCaptain , someone from my acquaintance had a (first and only) child at Kirsty's age. Only one person was passing remarks and she was someone with a houseful of children and was a grandparent.
My thoughts were an inner 'I wouldn't want to at this age' and 'It probably wasn't unplanned. A few rounds of gruelling IVF?' I didn't say anything other than 'How wonderful!'. I still haven't got over what the other person was saying. I could have said a lot of home truths to her at the time but I'm just too nice IRL.
The baby was fine and now a teenage apple of the parents' eyes.

@ExOptimist , I wasn't having a go or trying to make you feel bad. I don't need your advice on how to waste my time.

So presumably the flowers were £60?

(Unless Carol did it deliberately.)

It could be a misplaced decimal point.

Surely a barrister would behave with more sense and be less impetuous than Anna

And a barrister should have some idea about paying owed money into an account that had belonged to a now-deceased person. Pet insurers paid a big lump back in after DH died. It isn't unusual. And who's the executor?

I liked Alan looking for his cheque book. I still have one just in case. For years HMRC would only accept and send out cheques to Australia. And I still have to send a hard copy SA100 form to them every year - only that will do!

Back to TA. While I like the (predicted) twist to the banking story, Anna was on top form for turning into her mother. I agree that someone with her background would be able to take a breath and think things through.

LOL at Helen practically salivating at the prospect of Anna having some argy-bargy with Alan. "I'm not staying here - I'll come with you!"

Oh dear. Entirely as predicted. Reasonably plausible. Carol thought she was typing in 60 and then another two zeros to represent no pence but the app read it as 6000. Odd that Alan has not remembered the flowers, but of course this will have to be strung out a bit. He won't be delivering that eulogy tomorrow, I would bet.

Anna should really have more sense but (a) she is her mother's daughter, (b) the memorial service is tomorrow so it's natural she's on edge and (c) crucially, she is full of misplaced guilt and regret about how things were with her Mum, probably all her life. I was a bit jittery on the eve of my Mum's memorial service but fortunately for me (c) does not apply. Also, my Mum never touched online banking, which was a great relief.

If Carol's bank is proceeding the same way as my Mum's, her accounts will now be frozen and nothing can be paid in. If the will leaves everything to Anna, Alan might as well write a cheque payable to her. Will she accept it, though?

Surely Anna is the executor. A woman with £6k to her name and a sole heir in Anna is not going to appoint a solicitor.

Helen was, as always, well acted tonight. Her indignation at the vet bill increases… what does she think Alistair can do about it?!

Unless I missed it, we don't know Carol only had that £6k to her name. It's entirely possible she left some money to charity. Anna seems to be financially secure. Carol may have felt she didn't need to inherit much.