Archers thread #183: The Scorekeeper's Apprentice. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to share a hot tub with Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Credit for the title goes to @TottersBlankly who suggested it and @BeatriceBatchelor who coined this lovely phrase. (It's led me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I had not known before that the animation in Fantasia that goes with the Dukas symphonic tone poem is more or less unadulterated Goethe, and the story goes back to ancient times. You learn something every day.)

At the end of the last thread, there was an apocalyptic tone as we were all bemoaning the lack of continuity and farming storylines (especially lambing, which used to be a big theme at this time of year). Are there any reasons to be cheerful? (Not just Part 3 - another reference for the older listeners here. ) Over to you!

It's a ridiculous explanation.

She’s like a stroppy teenage Eeyore in a grown woman’s body with the accent layered on top. Weirdly, they quite often seem to have dreary, sounding voices in more minor female characters, like Hannah or Amy, or Beth,

I’m trying to think of new characters who have come in and worked without a relationship with an archer/sid/vicar

the snells?

Oh God, Beff. I'd managed to forget about her. Another awful voice.

Lexie was a likeable, interesting character until they ruined that storyline by making her Ian and Adam's surrogate.

Philip Moss

Nic

I suppose Nic married a Grundy

although Philip moss (I missed those years mostly) brings up Kirsty who seems to have slotted in well

I loathe Kirsty for two reasons: her voice is irritating, and she is Helen's "friend" (for some value of the word). Also, she is stupid: she nearly married Tom, FFS!

I've just listened to this episode. In a way, the every ordinariness of Joy's reveal was good; that commonplace divorce can fracture relationships so badly. I hardly recognised Mick, with his new vocabulary and the softer tone in his voice. Still a wrong 'un though in my book.

I disliked Joy when she first turned up, but she got better, only lately acting entirely out of character. I really like Harrison and hated the way a decent chap was turned inside out to serve some barmy cack SL.

Do the SWs actually read up on the history of TA? It ceratinly doesn't feel like it.

I don’t think Joy is honest and she’s given a very sanitised version. I think mick is going to end up having his eyes opened by Rochelle and struggle with what he learns and what Joy told him in comparison

i hate Kirsty’s voice and I don’t like her. But she is a good character to have around

I think Mick forgot to act as ‘Mick’ today, he sounded more like the actual actor. Like as it’s a serious discussion he couldn’t do ‘comedy Mick’, and so it sounded like somebody else.

I thought when Joy said they were really short of money she'd taken up prostitution.

Oliver and Caroline.

So who is new from the last 5 years or so - other than Joy & co and the maliks?

Paul?

Hannah doesn’t seem to have fitted very well

Hannah's not new. She worked in Ambridge a long time ago as a student, at Bridge Farm, I think.

Kirsty came in as Tom's girlfriend a long time ago, during his ecowarrior phase, when they trashed GM crops together. Then she became Helen's best friend. She's never been independent of people with the surname Archer.

Rex might count, but of course his brother is Rosie's Dad and Pip's ex, and Rex himself had a crush on Pip. Plus, the only reason the Farebrethren came to Ambridge at all was because the SWs of the day thought it would be nice to rile Jill up by reminding her of Phil's first wife, Grace Farebrother, who was the brethren's half-aunt. Their Dad, Robin, had a fling with Elizabeth much later.

Adil was new and unconnected to anyone called Archer.

There must be a lot more to come than that explanation. Mick’s not exactly the bloodhound type though is he?

Yes, if that’s the explanation after the whole ahem, long-ass, storyline then 🤷‍♀️

advantage being that Joy would end up in prison and we wouldn’t have to hear from her.

We hear from George in prison. We heard from Helen in prison. I think we may have heard from Freddie in prison, or maybe we just heard Lizzie going to visit him, can't remember.

Being in prison does not stop us hearing from characters.

But where did Joy get her money to buy a house and live without working, if her husband left and she was skint. No don't worry I don't care anyway.

Maybe Helen will make a Swiss cheese and name it after Joy

I was about to come on and post the same @Nettleteaser101 Joy's relocation from Shieldfield never rang true and has never been explained, she's never had a reason for being in Ambridge. This "explanation" doesn't make sense. If she was so skint how could she afford a Beechwood house? I've said it before and I'll say it again, Joy was much more interesting when Rochelle was like Schrodinger's cat (or like the fishing trip in Gavin and Stacey) - the uncertainty offered so much possibility, the reality is just not very believable and doesn't tie in with what we already know.

Last night was another episode of the Muck&Malik show which will alienate listeners who are loyal to TA and do nothing to bring in new listeners.

I think it's a mistake to have Khalil be a Cancer Kid (his description). It's just too sad and we already have Ben to tick the young man with mental health issues box.

It's such a shame that they have made Pip, Josh and Ben such unlikeable and boring characters because they had a real opportunity there to bring on the next generation, especially as there isn't any hint they won't be sticking around

Agreed but there's time for them to redeem themselves - Josh the entrepreneur showed promise. They could get a better actress to play Pip as the present one's weird delivery contributes to the character"s unlikeableness.

The SW made a mistake evicting the Fairbrethren from BF. They were good characters who actually wanted to be farmers. Pip and Stella could split and Pip decide that Rosie needs a sibling and ask Toby to oblige and he decide to stick around.

And Adam needs to be back at Home Farm.

Caroline worked in the Bull when she first arrived, accompanied by a large dog, and later very very very nearly married the vicar. Oliver met her through the hunt, which is a credible rural networking set-up.

It does seem like Joy has popped out of nowhere

at least the maliks have a reason to be there

i get that beechwood was a good way to try and introduce new characters but Joy has no link at all.

I don't think the Maliks do have a reason to there other than being shoe horned in for diversity training. The village needs a doctor (did Dr Locke leave/ die?) but there's no obvious reason for Ma Malik to have uprooted her children and her husband to be it.

The Malik children have moaned constantly until Khalil's magical bonding with Lynda's animals. Zainab's opportunities for doing something other than university are limited. Pa Malik is now an unemployed plumber.

Adil's role made sense. GG needed a project manager. I hated the
unbelievable way he was supposed to
have screwed it up.