Archers thread #183: The Scorekeeper's Apprentice. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to share a hot tub with Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Credit for the title goes to @TottersBlankly who suggested it and @BeatriceBatchelor who coined this lovely phrase. (It's led me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I had not known before that the animation in Fantasia that goes with the Dukas symphonic tone poem is more or less unadulterated Goethe, and the story goes back to ancient times. You learn something every day.)

At the end of the last thread, there was an apocalyptic tone as we were all bemoaning the lack of continuity and farming storylines (especially lambing, which used to be a big theme at this time of year). Are there any reasons to be cheerful? (Not just Part 3 - another reference for the older listeners here. ) Over to you!

In fact, I've had enough of TA now after many, many years.
It's lost it's way and I don't enjoy it.

I’m sorry to hear that. As awful as Rochelle is she is certainly the victim of her mother rather than the other way round

also agree that this plot could be plucked out and no one would notice or care

I'm (considerably) less than 100% convinced that Rochelle is the "victim" of anyone.

She’s the victim of an abusive father and a neglectful mother

thats made her who she is and unfortunately she seems to be repeating her mothers mistakes. Sounds like her kids have a decent father at least.

Doesn’t mean her actions should be forgiven

I guess she doesn’t have a history of activism known to her mother

I "get" that it is a drama but it just struck me that, aside from the newly arrived Maliks, only Keira and the Button sister and Tom/Tash twins (none of whom speak) seem to be living in a nuclear family unit (i.e.two parents in first marriage, not widowed, still living together, no turkey baster, no surrogate).

@Gonners, I'm 100% convinced that the victim is not Roach-hell.

So just listening. I find Joy a very unreliable narrator tbh

rochelle is just a bit cardboard cut out tbh

also think that what the sw are trying to achieve with these characters is clearly failing

i would rather hear from the Maliks

also found her referring them to ‘jama’s’ really irritating. Almost as irritating as ‘bairns’ all the time

and why has mick changed his delivery over the last week or so

Rochelle’s response of ‘what’s for tea’ was to show that she has low expectations of her mum

I'd have told her it was roast lamb with potatoes (roasted around the lamb) and some sort of root vegetable mashed with load of butter and that if she wanted vegan food she could cook it for herself.

Mick is being rehabilitated so we take to him.

Too late!

The trouble with Rochelle is she wants it both ways. If you believe she is 100% the victim of an abusive childhood then why is she in Ambridge taking free bed and board?

If Joy is willingly giving Rochelle support now and accepts her version of the truth then Rochelle can’t keep punishing her over and over again through the rude and sullen attitude. To my mind it’s either ‘work with Joy to try and forgive her’ or ‘no contact’. The middle ground of ‘I’m entitled to continually treat you like crap’ is just annoying and surely Joy can’t put up with that long term?

I was struck by the way Mum always gets the blame. The absent father is just excused with ‘I couldn’t rely on him anyway’. All very true to real life.

I actually think Mick has been more likeable of late. Having a reason to be less of the (apparently) ‘comic character’ suits him.

True that @Abra1t. I’m falling for it. 🙄

Well her father was clearly abusive so I don’t think that’s questioned

i think you only have to read threads on here to see how hard it is to go no contact

is it that weird that Rochelle hasn’t grown up and is continually trying to punish her mum/seek her approval?

I mean fundamentally I don’t really care and hope we can have Rochelle sent to prison for burning down the abattoir and joy and mick falling down a sink hole

I did think there might be some significance in the fact that Joy felt she almost had to knock on her own front door when she came back - like the mother bird pushed out of its nest by the cuckoo(s). I don't think we've heard the full story - I still don't understand why, if Joy was such a terrible parent, Rochelle has come running back to her as a grown woman.

This VE Day 80th anniversary 'prequel:

Why would something discovered in the grounds of a private house in a different village have anything in particular to do with Ambridge? They had their own "big house" and Squire.

Quite apart from that – dear Lord, in the middle of a war for the survival of the country who was let off military service for archaeological digs? Or were the land-girls doing them in their free time? (Hint: they didn't have much of that.)

Oh, and Jack was passed not fit for military service and spent the war as a clerk in a supplies depot (this was made clear near the beginning of the programme: he felt that he'd failed to pull his weight). So hardly "away at war": Peggy could as easily have lived where he was as in London. He brought his wife home with him to Ambridge after he was demobbed from his depot; she was never there without him.

It looks so dreadful I’m going to pretend I didn’t see the post!!

Madcats
Keira... living in a nuclear family unit (i.e.two parents in first marriage,...

Except for her mother's previous marriage and its resulting son.

So is that just 2 nuclear families in the entire village? I’m struggling to think of anybody else!

David & Ruth
Clarrie & Eddie
Tony & Pat
Neil & Susan
or are they all too old?
Tom and <Welsh woman whose name I can't remember>

For people with young kids it is only Tom and tash isn’t it?

You are right, very short on nuclear families amongst the younger generations.
Pip's friend?

I think she’s a single mum?

I think I dreamt that Archers were talking about farming. And inheritance tax. I’m sure it wasn’t a real episode so I’ll keep quiet until I’ve listened again.

Oh Elizabeth! How she guffawed at the idea of Vince being attracted to Rochelle …

So sad that in order for the characters to talk about farming and the inheritance tax they had to make it adversarial. Also Jolene, as a landlady, should know better than to express loudly her political opinions; it's a thing that tends to put off customers she disagrees with.

It could just as easily have been David and Brian griping about it without "giving both sides of the question", if only the BBC were not so keen on being even handed that they will give the same amount of time to a NASA scientist and a flat-earther.