Archers thread #183: The Scorekeeper's Apprentice. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to share a hot tub with Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Credit for the title goes to @TottersBlankly who suggested it and @BeatriceBatchelor who coined this lovely phrase. (It's led me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I had not known before that the animation in Fantasia that goes with the Dukas symphonic tone poem is more or less unadulterated Goethe, and the story goes back to ancient times. You learn something every day.)

At the end of the last thread, there was an apocalyptic tone as we were all bemoaning the lack of continuity and farming storylines (especially lambing, which used to be a big theme at this time of year). Are there any reasons to be cheerful? (Not just Part 3 - another reference for the older listeners here. ) Over to you!

Helen runs a business but what does she actually do. She has no involvement with the numbers as she’s totally reliant on the accountant. So she deals with suppliers (is that much work) and trying to drum up custom?

Neither of them bothered to find out whether anything either of them wanted to see was on at any cinema anywhere near them, I noticed. Is there generally such a wide choice?

I also think Goosebumps did a version of it - with a youngish girl. I watched it as a teenager and had horrific nightmares which occasionally still happen, 25 years later...

Why hasn't Mick(or anyone) asked joy or Rochelle why Rochelle doesn't live with her children? It is such an important question, she even said something about getting a job so she could be a better mother.
I know it's a plot device but it's just so unrealistic, par for the course at the moment I know.

No point ... Rochelle would blame her mother and Joy would blame herself.

<on edit> I mean no point from the listeners' point of view!

Why has Joy not explained , or Rochelle asked, why Joy is in Ambridge and apparently quite well off.

She probably thrived after getting over ditching the husband and ghastly daughter. Or won the lottery.

I feel no particular dislike for Joy. In the scheme of things, I find her one of the least objectionable characters in Ambridge. I don't dislike the Maliks either ... they seem to be an unusually normally-functioning family (by Ambridge standards) now that Pa Malik has returned. I do despise pretty much all Archers and their spawn, though.

Yours,
The Wrong Sort of Listener

Rochelle's history doesn't make a lot of sense. From what we know so far, she's gone from living in squats, to being married with two children, to divorced and barely any contact with the children and finally following her Mum who she supposedly was no contact with for years to a random village with no job prospects (although remarkably she has managed to just walk into a job in true Ambridge realism).

If she ended up in squats then it's likely she became addicted to drugs. So perhaps a period of being clean followed by a massive relapse leading to divorce and minimal contact with her own children?

I'd much rather hear all about the lambs and the calves quite frankly.

I'm sure I'll get over the Maliks, well Ma and Pa anyway, if I just hear less of them. I have hopes for Pa Malik being a bit of a ladies' man.

I like Joy and don't mind Mick or Rochelle- the problem is the lack of realism , the poor writing and the lack of continuity and consistency.

Ha! Pa Malik has great potential as a bit of a ladies' man, but one who takes it no further than charming them into hiring him. Now he has turned up. the Maliks seem like the least disfunctional family in Ambridge.

Mick was good tonight. There's more to learn about Rochelle but it was off that Joy didn't in any way allude to the "more" while all that truth was being told tonight.

came on to talk about Helen, which I see you’ve already covered - but also what’s going on with Pat? I always thought of her as a bit of a down to earth decent character but she was just as bad as Helen this week, plus the awful emotional manipulation of Neil a few weeks back. Urgh.

@Brefugee another one sorry to hear about your employment woes - I am freelance and it’s super super super tough for everyone, without the horrible ageism and sexism built into the patriarchy! I’m sure you have thought of this, and it does depend on what sector you are in, but if you haven’t considered the impact of AI screening on your CV and applications please please do - it revolutionised my new business success once I worked out how to beat the algorithm. I’d also recommend taking off dates from your CV as well and letting experience speak for itself - feels counter intuitive but it’s the best way to clear the AI skimming and increase your chances of getting your (by the sounds of it) great experience in front of a real person who will judge you on your worth. I won’t go on about it too much here but happy to chat privately if it’s in any way helpful - best of luck

Helen was well in character there. She is ghastly.

How long was Joy in bed, not brushing her teeth, for?

I'll grant that it must've been difficult for teenaged Rochelle but bad enough for her to move into a squat and still be a loser 30 years later?

This VE Day 80th anniversary 'prequel' looks interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-radio-4-pays-tribute-to-peggy-woolley-in-special-archers-prequel

Must say the Brookfield land girl possesses a rather splendid name 😆

Just caught up. I'm baffled by the timeline. If Joy married in the late 1970s, 'quite young', that makes her early to mid- 60s? Presuming she had Rochelle soon after she married, she must be mid-40s. I can't believe her offspring are 'children'. They'd be into their teens. And if Rochelle feels like that about Joy why does she keep coming back? But in the final analysis I really don't care. It's like a plot unit that could be lifted out of TA without leaving a mark.

I think Rochelle is very affected by her childhood (bullying controlling father who leaves then mother has prolonged severe depression) and has traits of Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder, hence she forms relationships quickly them self-sabotages and runs away. It's very possible for a woman in her early 40s to have primary school aged kids. Joy is too scared of her to point out Rochelle's own terrible parenting. Backstory could be drugs, but Rochelle comes across as a lying manipulative bully so could just be her own personality that did for the marriage

From the information on that prequel"

During excavations of an 18th century grotto in the grounds of Lower Loxley, a series of enigmatic prophecies are unearthed, predicting death and destruction,

I wonder if it predicts John falling off the tractor, Nigel falling off the roof, the great flood, the sewage invasion, and the arrival of Knob?

I too was almost moved to tears by Clarrie - describing how much she loved her job and feeling utterly bereft without it. We've known her for years, we know what a hard life she has and how put upon she is - the idea of having time to herself is actually quite funny. Working at the dairy was time to herself - beyond the beck and call of her family, time to hang out with her friend Susan, eating their lunch together and get paid for it at the same time. Working at the abattoir or chicken factory would not be remotely comparable - even assuming she could have found employment there. She didn't properly have time to prepare for this huge change and so she's also got all those not knowing how good something is until it's gone vibes. I'm actually also wondering what it's like now for Susan working on her own. The drama is in the small unfolding of events in two peoples' lives in the village - the loss of a part-time job in the dairy holds so much possibility and carries so much weight because of what came before it. Joy and Rochelle - I couldn't care less. The SWs seem to be making it up as they go along, none of it hangs together properly so it's hard to know who to believe. I still don't understand why Joy is Ambridge or how she can afford to be there - her sole purpose in moving there now seems to be so that this draaama could unfold and none of it relates to anyone else in the village.

I am disappointed that Susan didn’t quit in solidarity tbh.

I had wondered if the coffin business chat was because a not male character would be needing one soon. Though the most obvious business solution would be planting a field of willow and get Clarrie with her knitting schools to take up weaving them. Willow is fast growing and they could buy in supplies / get them from tree surgery in the short term.

A friend of mine once suggested we set up an eco burial business a few years ago. It was a hard pass from me as (apart from the golden age of detective fiction) I don’t like to dwell on death, except when grieving.

Thank you @Yardbird I'm going to revamp and AI my CV etc next week.
Having a day off today 😁

So. Now we know some backstory do we have to wait 5 tears to find out how Joy affords the house? And more about Richelle's situation?

Mick was ok. But I cannot stand Joy and Rochelle's voices/intonation.

Assuming Joy married at 18 - she'll be 65 this year. ( too young to retire maybe?)
If married at 16 or 17 she'd turn 63/64

Rochelle's…gone…to a random village with no job prospects (although remarkably she has managed to just walk into a job in true Ambridge realism)

Whereas Clarrie, who’s been in Ambridge forever and knows everyone, couldn’t even get a sniff of a job in the packing department, which let’s face it must be pretty unskilled work.

ETA and despite (Clarrie) having worked for years in a food environment involving precise procedures and a high degree of organisation (we won’t mention the unfortunate hygiene lapse)

Rochelle needs Therapy and to learn not to be rude and aggressive - she would get in better in life. First thing she said to her mam was "what's for tea?" In an aggressive voice. I would have pulled her up for it and told her to make it herself.

I reckon Rochelle out the hose through the letterbox.

Carrie needs to stop wallowing in self pity and go and volunteer whilst looking for a job. I'm sure there must be a soup kitchen who would welcome her culinary skills. And charity shops, dog/cat shelters etc all needing unpaid volunteers to help out.

"we know what a hard life she has and how put upon she is"
Only because she enables it.

She didn't properly have time to prepare for this huge change She's nearly 71. , most people that age are retired.

Joy and Rochelle - I couldn't care less.
Joy was likeable until the ghastly daughter appeared. She behaves like a stroppy teenager and her voice is annoying.

Rochelle comes across as a lying manipulative bully so could just be her own personality that did for the marriage It probably did for Joy's mental breakdown.

The Brookfield land girl's name is indeed splendid. (One of my colleagues has a splendid name - nothing 'out there' or too unusual, but the combination sounds like a product or pseudonym. I'm quite envious.)

My single-parent mother admitted a few years ago that she had neglected me as a young child and teen ' I was burnt out and had nothing left to give, I never listened to you, I'm surprised you're such a good mother the lack of mothering you had'.
Even now she'll say 'Oh sorry you did say that, I'm so used to not listening to you'.
With other harmful things she did my therapist recently called it severe emotional abuse.
So Joy did lie to Mick, descrediting Rochelle's version of events.
I'll mute any more of Joy storylines.