Archers thread #183: The Scorekeeper's Apprentice. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to share a hot tub with Mucky Mick, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Credit for the title goes to @TottersBlankly who suggested it and @BeatriceBatchelor who coined this lovely phrase. (It's led me to take a look at the Wikipedia page for The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I had not known before that the animation in Fantasia that goes with the Dukas symphonic tone poem is more or less unadulterated Goethe, and the story goes back to ancient times. You learn something every day.)

At the end of the last thread, there was an apocalyptic tone as we were all bemoaning the lack of continuity and farming storylines (especially lambing, which used to be a big theme at this time of year). Are there any reasons to be cheerful? (Not just Part 3 - another reference for the older listeners here. ) Over to you!

This ten times over, especially your last paragraph. I'm sick of hearing supposedly 2 equal sides when one deals with proven facts and the other is merely opinions.

Is Joy going to recall that she was going to propose to Mick on Christmas Day but then Rochelle arrived

Ben is a sanctimonious idiot.

I think I’ve missed something on the timelines. If Joy and Elizabeth only just had the shop chat about Joy’s bad mothering then how do Vince know when he was offering Rochelle a job and giving her a lift days before?

I don't think you have missed much. Elizabeth might have inferred something from Rochelle's non-appearance at the wellness day, and she might since have said something to Vince. But there's none so blind as them as won't see, and it's probably much easier for Elizabeth to rationalise that Vince is being all paternalistic and caring employee after the fact (of the lift etc) than to allow doubts that his head could be turned by Rochelle.

It would seem out of character for him but they did have that weird storyline of not moving in that didn’t seem to go anywhere. Although weird storylines that don’t go anywhere are par for the Archer’s course 🤷‍♀️

The olden days Archers, where there was a 'giving good advice to farmers' remit, had a lot to be said for it. Apart from anything else, we'd already have had nudges regarding - get succession planning advice - put a succession plan in place - make sure you think about your pension and DO something about it.

The stories would shape themselves round that. Much better listening than this endless soapy drama for the sake of drama.

Anyhow, are we going to have Rochelle having a serious breakdown and Ben stepping in with support, leading to him and Joy having a talk - that would be good.

are we going to have Rochelle having a serious breakdown and Ben stepping in with support, leading to him and Joy having a talk - that would be good.

No. It wouldn’t.

Damn you, oh fishy one! You beat me to it.

I agree about Rochelle's approach. At no point does she seem to acknowledge that, if her life was mucked up by her mother not being around for a time, she is knowingly mucking up her own children's lives. But I guess in her head that's all Joy's fault too.

It would be excellent, you nay-sayers. They'd have a chance to emote at each other and use lots of buzz words. And cry a bit. Maybe hug. Even better if Lizzie joined in. And Martyn Gibson! The SWs always enjoy giving us a bit of mental health stuff.

Please don’t give the sw ideas!

a self help group in the church hall led by Alan using his caring vicar voice. Joy, Rochelle, Ben, poor martyn, and maybe Helen will turn up to make it about her?

Azra and Alan working together. Yes, Helen should be there, and Alice.

And Lynda! And Kate could offer the services of the yoga goats.

Elizabeth's another candidate for the care group.

I hope we're going to hear how Susan's getting on at the dairy on her own - I suspect Helen's not much help.

No doubt Helen is going to invite her for tea and cake so she can then tell her off for production nose diving since clarrie left

Yes, I'm sure Helen's interfering (rather than actually helping) skills are coming into their own. Lucky Susan, eh?

Yes I can just picture that re Helen and cake.

it would be quite funny if George just came of prison and got into being an undertaker and making lots of money, I imagine it must be quite good money all that stuff for funerals is so pricey?

Decades ago, when I was at school, I can remember that one of the fellow sixth-formers had a job as a weekend pall-bearer. Comparatively speaking he earned a lot more than the kids shelf-stacking or waitressing. Presumably he was on a standard adult wage (and weekend funerals do seem to be a lot more expensive than weekday ones).

I could imagine George upselling coffins (though I have a hazy recollection that they did a storyline about coffins for Joe’s funeral).

I know nothing about the funeral business except that prices are high, but the overheads must be quite considerable. I would hazard a guess that they've lost out on some business in recent years with the rise of direct cremations.

Even with direct cremations, they're often providing the coffin, and possibly body-storage facilities before the cremation, but iI guess they're losing out on posh cars, pall bearers, etc.

At the lovely funeral I went to recently, all the pall bearers were women (at the deceased's request).

I did not like the way Elizabeth laughed at the very idea of Vince being tempted away from her by Rochelle.

I'm guessing Elizabeth is a little bit older than Rochelle and that Rochelle is an attractive woman - Rex obviously thought so and Freddie is worried that Vince's head could be turned. But Rochelle doesn't own a minor stately home and Elizabeth is clearly confident that her own supposed classiness (acquired by marriage) is a major attraction for aspirational Vince. I suspect she is right. I can't see Vince dumping Elizabeth for Rochelle myself. But realistic SLs are not a requirement in TA at the moment, so who knows?

I'm still clinging on to the hope that Rochelle is going to kidnap Vince or burn the abbatoir to the ground. (At least as realistic a SL as Vince running off with her.) After all the mystery about Rochelle, the truth is just so dull. In theory there could be a good SL about the ways in which Rochelle's disfunctional childhood has affected her ability to form relationships and be a good parent, but that would require more subtlety and emotional intelligence than the SWs possess, so instead all we get is Rochelle whining and being rude to everyone. Our own ideas about the Great Rochelle Mystery were far more interesting than the current very lacklustre SL and a bit of abbatoir arson would definitely liven things up.

Of course, saying that just reveals how low my expectations of TA have become. I might as well be talking about East Enders.

vince thinking she likes him is a red herring before she totally betrays him

Elizabeth didn’t acquire ‘classiness’ through marriage - she’s an Archer. In Ambridge she’s been royalty since before she was born. And really, apart from a big house, the SWs haven’t burdened her with any of the additional accoutrements of aristocracy that might have accompanied her position. There’s virtually no grand socialising, or foreign travel, they even had her cut down on domestic staff!

As she was born in 1967 (so will be 60 in a couple of years) she’s considerably older than we think Rochelle must be.

I’m pretty certain her incredulous dismissal of the idea of Rochelle as a rival tells us exactly where the story is going. She will be apoplectic. I only hope it doesn’t have an effect on her heart.