Archers thread #175: Crime, punishment and kittens. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that your current highlight is the kitten naming, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

As I am posting this on Sunday morning at a point where some omnibus listeners won't have caught up with this week's events, I've kept the title less spoilerish than I might have done. Below this point, everything broadcast to date is of course fair game, so be warned!

Of course the main interest for most us at the moment is indeed the kitten naming competition. Isn't it? No?

Oh well, since you insist ...

How do we think George is going to cope now? Whither the Grundy and Horrobin clan? Will Lilian choke on her G&T (please)? Will Kenton get septicaemia from a kitten scratch? Will Alice die of sanctimoniousness? Will Fallon spend the rest of her life with the appalling Harrison and his unfulfulled longing for a behbeh? Will Adam and Will come to blows in the Bridge Farm packing shed?

Over to you!

I would be SO SAD if anything happened to Neil. I really like him and Susan, I think they're my favourite Ambridge couple and they've shown real mettle in this SL.

Me too. But Susan and Neil are really caught in the middle of all of this. Alice is their DIL and Martha is their granddaughter while Emma is their daughter and George is their grandson. The whole affair has been lose-lose for them. They can't calmly sit back and support one side or the other. Neil and Susan tried to contain the damage by persuading Emma to go to the police (and avoid a repeat of what happened with Susan and Clive), but even that seems to have backfired on them. Now Chris and Emma are at loggerheads (in the way the newly-united Will and Ed used to be). They are in an impossible situation - added to which they really understand the impact of prison on both the prisoner and their direct family. I'm not surprised Neil is in a state.

It's a shame (not really) that prison escapes are so rare these days in the UK. Back in the 90s, prisoners were much more proactive about releasing themselves into the wild, and George scaling the wall and going on the run would be an entertaining storyline.

I’ve always found it unfair that prisoners get time added to their sentence after a failed escape. Either you lock them up, and it’s entirely on you to make sure they stay locked up, or you say “there’s nothing stopping you leaving but you will be punished if you do”. You can’t do both.

OK,in practice you have to. But that’s my gut feeling.

If Lilian is suspicious if strange teenagers, does that automatically become racist if the teenager is non-white? Even when she would have treated a white teenager in the same way?

I think these days it’s not about what was intended but how it was perceived

I think Lynda would have been the same with any teen but the sw decided otherwise I guess

i know it’s hard but I think the sw need to be very careful not to stereotype the maliks in their writing by giving them a stereotypical SL. I feel zainab might be going down that route

im hoping she makes friends with Chelsea etc and im hoping khalil makes friends with Henry and Keira so we get the characters more rounded

i hope we’re not going to get one of the ambridge kids being the racist bullying instigator. Although would be funny if it was Henry I sense we are getting Poppy as the next troublemaker

I think Henry has more sense - so far he seems to be the brains in that family, and gawd knows, they need some! I have great hopes of Jack turning into his father's son, though.

Henry is the least believable character - I have higher hopes for Jack!

You mean Lynda.
its not that she's suspicious of teenagers. It's the use of language like 'going back to the metropolis' and the implied assumption that those teenagers belong in a city, not in the country. It was definitely signalled as racism, I don't think that's in question.

I actually think it's a good SL. Unintentional/accidental racism is different to overt. Lynda is kind and well intentioned and as PP said she wouldn't bat an eyelid at usha the lawyer or adil the property developer. But unconscious bias is real. I like the detail that Lynda tried to make up for her clanger with a tagine (north African) dish for a south Asian family rather than a casserole or whatever she would normally have cooked. She realised she messed up and made an effort to repair but got it a bit wrong. It's good.

I also felt that it had been mentioned before, but I can't pin down when.

I do think Rinder is right though and his age, clean record, good employment record etc might have tipped in into a suspended sentence in RL.

I think he left out some exacerbating factors, though. Most perversion of the course of justice cases involve basically just trying to get someone off without implicating anyone else, e.g. bribing witnesses. In this case George's whole offence was about implicating someone else, to the extent of giving a witness statement to the police and apparently being willing to come to court and perjure himself. So it's not just that he would have escaped justice, but he would apparently have happily seen an innocent person punished for his offence. Even if Alice would have got off with a lighter sentence, she would still be left with a criminal record and it could have had all sorts of serious consequences for her employment prospects, custody of her child etc, to say nothing of her mental health and her addiction. Also, this wasn't a one-off moment of madness, he carried it on for a long time and was apparently prepared to do so indefinitely - he doesn't get any credit for owning up of his own initiative.

The other exacerbating factor was obviously the attempt to implicate Harry. Trying to implicate one person for dangerous driving was bad enough, trying to frame a second person for dangerous driving and perverting the course of justice was really serious.

I'm wondering if drone footage was mentioned when George was filming promotional videos at the stables?

Lynda? Would she have spoken in that way to a white child, implying they didn't speak English?

Most perversion of the course of justice cases involve basically just trying to get someone off without implicating anyone else, e.g. bribing witnesses. Or in one high profile case saying your wife was driving, not you. But that was with wife's "permission" (so she got done too).

Only just catching up on Archers after a month or two away.

I noticed the obvious foreshadowing of something with Neil. He's been on the show for 51 years, and so must be in his late 60s at least, right? I'm guessing they're leading up to some kind of health scare, but hopefully not killing him off just yet.

Or in one high profile case saying your wife was driving, not you. But that was with wife's "permission" (so she got done too).

Oh, that was so entertaining! Curiously, I always confuse that couple with the equally fragrant Hamiltons.

Hello! I've just found this thread. I've been gripped by the George storyline and thought it was very well acted, I got a bit teary actually and I LOVED Alice's witness statement.

Also, Sharoo is a great name for the pub cat! Please let it be Sharoo!

The Archers 😡 How can George be guilty of causing the accicident by dangerous driving I speak a a lawyer and his should be struck off for letting him plead guilty.
The drunk Alice was trying to jump out of a moving car - he tried to save her - that was the cause of the crash .
the script writers have got this wrong ! ( why is this annoying me so much is a 🤔 !,

A controversial opinion re Alice’s witness statement!!

with all kitten names it must be considered how they would be said in pirate

Legal aid lawyer who is happy for her client to plead guilty to save some work? George plead guilty through his guilty conscience and remorse I assume.

I guess it makes no difference to the time he’s going to spend inside

I was disappointed Alice didn't withdraw her statement (after she saw the impact it had on George at the cottage) and speak positively about him in court.

When Martha is a teen/young woman, Alice will have to listen to her impact statement on what it has been like, lliving with foetal alcohol syndrome.

Oh I think George is 100% guilty. Still feel really sorry for him though.

Does Martha have foetal alcohol syndrome??

The drunk Alice was trying to jump out of a moving car - he tried to save her - that was the cause of the crash

That is still dangerous driving. He was distracted and should have pulled over (even if it were possible for a seatbelted drunk to jump out of a moving vehicle, which it isn’t- there was nothing to ‘save’ the stupid woman from) the first time she indicated she was going to spew.
It makes little difference anyway since the sentence runs concurrently with that for the more serious offence.

In 15 years when Martha has a poor relationship with Alice and is a total tear away - FAS or not - will she still be blaming George?

when Harrison gets sacked for beating up a prisoner will he and Fallon be blaming George?

Ah.

I work a lot with alcoholics so I think I felt a level of empathy with Alice that I've realised might not be shared on this thread.