Archers thread #174: God it's lame! But it still limps on. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Ben-meets-Zainab is on a par with Elizabeth-meets-Darcy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Bruisername for the title inspiration. She said God it's lame and that seemed to strike a chord with many, for some reason.

I am terrified of wasps and live in fear of encountering a hornet, so that was a tricky episode. I hope that's the last we're going to hear of them, except for confirmation that they've been nuked. [shudder]

So what do we reckon - custodial or suspended sentence for George? Will Clarrie return from Great Yarmouth or will she realise that actually life as a carer for her (presumably disabled) sister is easier than the endless and thankless drudgery at Grange Farm? Will any more tables collapse at the Village Hall?

Over to you!

I don't blame Alice for feeling very angry that George tried to frame her for an offence that could have resulted in her going to prison.

What I don't like at all is that she is blaming him for damaging her relationship with Martha when she was already drinking heavily before Bridge-gate.

And I really hated the way she dressed up her vindictive (albeit understandable) attack on George by pretending to him and herself that she was somehow behaving in George's best interests.

Serious levels of self deception in both cases. (I am really not in Team Alice. Can you tell?)

Alice and Lilian are currently top of the list of people I hope get deaded in a forthcoming chainsaw-related incident.

They’ve overtaken Pip which is quite an achievement.

Agreed goddess

makes me think of mr bean and the steak tartare

I think that’s only because you haven’t heard her for a while!!

304 posts in 6 days! Another fast-moving thread.

This covers what I’m thinking too.

I’ve just remembered another time she might have caused a car accident - early on when she passed out by the side of the road and Gavin found her. I know… she didn’t actually nearly cause an accident, but it’s been a long drawn out process.

Atichen
And prosecuting alice incase her intension was to drive when still drunk feels a bit minority report ... damming people for possible future crimes they haven't yet committed, but might..

It would be prosecuting her for a criminal offence she is committing; it is a criminal offence to be drunk in charge of a motor vehicle (or a bicycle, or a horse, or I think in Scotland a cow). Having the keys in the car with her while she is drunk is being drunk in charge, a crime she has committed more than once, and has stated she makes a habit of committing.

So not to do with possible future crime, but to do with actual present (and apparently habitual) crime.

That was the occasion on which she left the vile voice-message for Emma, I think, before setting out to wander away drunk and play with the traffic.

I am SO tired of this story.

I rolled my eyes at Alice’s description of herself as a struggling single mother who would have been deprived of her only source of income had she lost her job. She’ll never experience life on the breadline as a ‘single parent’ (whose ex husband and former in-laws do most of the childcare) and Lilian would have fought tooth and nail to keep her employed.

That said, I thought the end of the episode was quite moving. She might be the only person who can actually make George turn his life around.

Ed should have told Lilian and Chris about Alice’s visit. It would have been good to hear Chris spluttering with rage over his beer. He has become another version of Harrison - making Alice’s predicament all about him.

I must say, the trembling voice as Alice talked about the damage to her relationship with Marthurr was seriously annoying me. It seems to me quite dishonest to claim to the court that that was all down to George when she knew perfectly well that the relationship was primarily damaged by a long history of drinking and two spells in rehab that had nothing at all to do with him.

Regardless of victim blaming and George being drunk, if Alice had got drunk at home in her own living room after palming Martha, again!!! Off on to Chris, none of this would ever have happened.
As I have said before Alice only thinks of Alice and Im sure if this was real life Chris and all his family would never have let her have Martha alone again.
It just seems that if she isnt drinking or they think shes not that thats ok, lets get back to normal and tell her shes is doing great and is a great mum.

Agreed.

I rolled my eyes at Alice’s description of herself as a struggling single mother who would have been deprived of her only source of income had she lost her job. So did I, Eastie! Breathtaking cluelessness there.

When George first appeared, I thought he was utterly loathsome and not a character I wanted to hear much of at all, but as time has gone on, he has become one of the most interesting. I give a lot of the credit for this to Angus Stobie. Really good acting. If George goes to prison I will be sorry to hear less of him, a thing I never thought I'd say!

We'll know on Thursday. That's the day of the sentencing, I believe.

well they’re running trailers for Thursday!!

alice also talked about her job and said how because she worked for family it made it all worse some how. I found that really bizarre as if she didn’t work for family she would have been out on her ear as soon as the drinking came to light

There seems to be an assumption that George was drunk. There is no evidence for this. He bought what I assumed was a 4-pack of fruit cider and the impression I got was that he opened one - which he thought was pretty disgusting, but hey, at least it was booze of sorts - and took the rest with him on the walk home, plus the unfinished one to drink on the way.

What I remember (possibly wrongly) was that he chucked the rest, plus the empty can/bottle, into the back of Alice's car where it remained until after he hauled Fallon out and remembered to remove the remaining three (presumably still in one of those 4-pack cardboard thingies) but forgot the empty can/bottle.

I freely admit that this was not made clear and is what happened in my head, rather than what happened in other people's heads. But one can/bottle of fruit cider would not put him over the limit.

That was the way I understood it too.

I'm thick-skinned but as someone who once had addiction to alcohol I agree with a pp that some of the comments here about Alice's drinking are a bit crude - partly, I think, because they conflate Alice's personality / character / position in life with her addiction and those things are separate. I've known many people with alcohol problems and I think Alice's journey has been quite interesting.

The SWs have given Alice quite a serious / dramatic habit, and many people will have a much lower-level habit, like I did, but I think the SWs did well in not portraying Alice's first rehab as an equally dramatic 'cure', so she has to keep dealing with it. Although the second rehab has been quite quick, that might not be unrealistic. 'Rock bottom' is an Alcoholics Anonymous phrase and they tend to be rather rigid - people don't have to reach some symbolic pit of despair before getting better.

Addicts do have choices, even when it doesn't feel like a choice, particularly from a starting-point of sobriety. My position is always acceptance of the addict but that doesn't mean acceptance of all actions: people can make choices to protect others even where they can't currently stop themselves drinking, that includes not driving. The most fraught set of choices is how they deal with their children and I think the SWs have had a decent crack at exploring that - with more to come I expect.

I don't think it can be said that Alice actually 'caused the accident' by being an addict, her past actions didn't cause it. You can only decide she caused it from some position of moral dislike I think. I do like George and Alice as more complicated and well-acted characters.

Alice choosing to drink herself unconscious (on vodka) in a car was one the factors that caused the accident. If she had not been an addict and had done the same thing it would have been equally culpable and illegal.

George was an idiot, letting her take all the blame was wicked. I await the legal judgement with interest.

I think it’s more that people forgive a lot of her behaviour because they blame it on her addiction (like throwing the brick through the shop window and the vile things she says) when in reality it is just her personality coming to the fore

Really hope George doesn't try to kill himself after being forced to listen to Alice's vindictive, self- righteous attack. She should never have been allowed to speak to him.

i bought a chainsaw recently (just a small rechargeable one) and i was thinking, having used it against a relatively small, bendy tree, how it would get through flesh and bone, especially if that flesh and bone was trying to fight you off.

Agree that Alice and Lilian are top of the list.

The scenes with Alice and George were beautifully done (apart from the alice-actor and her weird way of over enunciating and speaking as though she has too many teeth) and i did have a bit of a tear-trickle situation

Bruisername
well they’re running trailers for Thursday!!

Put the gist of them into "spoilers"? I don't listen to Radio 4 any more, too much muzak.

Oh there’s no real spoiler - just a ‘what’s going to happen to me?’ From George

I think Alice is selfish to the core. I don't like George at all. He's an unpleasant oxygen thief but it felt very uncomfortable for Alice to lay so much blame on him. Alice is the one that's harmed Martha in so many ways. She needs to own that, not lay it at Georges door. She shouldn't have her in her care, never mind be blaming George for her harm.

I sort of understand how George made the decision to do what he did do I do feel a bit sorry for him. Unfortunately, though he's a very unlikeable chap in general.