Archers thread #172: Come on, Clive! Spill the beans and put us all out of our misery. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that Clive sounds deeply misunderstood, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Fete over, cricket season over - can the Flower and Produce show be far behind? I don't think I've heard a mention of it this year. Have I not been paying attention?

In any real village, preparations for the Christmas show would already be under way, but not in Ambridge, of course. I am probably in a minority of one in regretting this.

With any luck, though, by Christmas this incredibly protracted tale of Alice, George and the crash will be behind us at last. Do we think Clive's really gone? I don't believe it. We won't be rid of him that easily. Will he go to the police himself? Will he attempt to blackmail his family or extort money from the Aldridges in return for information that would secure Alice's acquittal? Do we care? I find I don't really, unfortunately. I did enjoy hearing Clive for those few brief exchanges but I've had enough now. Unrelieved nastiness is not really what I want from TA.

Over to you!

Isn’t the answer to asking pip to do something that she would get someone else to do it (probably Josh) and then have her parents singing her praises?

agree the Brookfield archers are being sidelined but I feel that’s because they’ve painted themselves into a corner with the ridiculous Pip worship

The Pargeter twins are a PIA too* - the Pargeter twins are a brilliant construct. The idea of the heir to LL having twins, where only one can inherit was genius, particularly where the one who won’t inherit is clearly better suited to the role. Lily and Freddie are so clearly defined in my mind - Lily more like her mother, Freddie more like his dad, the tragedy of losing their father so young so that the inequity and discrepancy between them is so clear right from the moment their characters are starting to form. The fact that there are no other siblings to share the inequity of the winner-gets-it-all inheritance… I could go on…(@TottersBlanklyIntoThePhysicGarden please pick up the baton!)

I wouldn’t worry about the pargetter twins having an inheritance to fight over as will be taxed to nought soon enough. That would be a fabulous SL!!

Not the squelching. Gross.

The trouble is we never see Pip in real trouble, or facing a real dilemma where we see her pushed, making hard choices, torn in two, etc. And we never see her responding emotionally. She is a flat character.

Emma, Helen, Fallon, Kirsty have all been challenged. We may not always like them, but we can see where they're coming from because we've seen them going through things.

@LillianGish Pope of farming, single mother, World's First Lesbian ...

Typo for World's Worst?

I think we do see Pip having to make difficult decisions, it's just that they don't seem to contribute to make up a coherent picture of who she is. She certainly had a lot of soul searching, and air time, around whether she would abort (what later turned into) Rosie. And her on-off relationship with Toby. And very brief worries about Rosie becoming Fat Rosie ... It's true that she never has the precarity of the working-class characters, and has her family's unconditional support (even her decision to eventually keep the baby meant relying on nonagenarian childcare), so I guess her big dilemmas don't seem as big, but I still don't think that's the real issue. I think it's more that she hasn't ever been portrayed as a rounded character. Whether smooth sailing or in trouble, we don't really know who she is.

And of course none of Pip’s decisions have any impact at all on the wider Ambridge community - even though producing the first Brookfield heir of the next generation ought to have been a Big Deal.

The SWs painting themselves into a corner at Brookfield is exactly the problem. I wonder if 60 odd years ago they could have anticipated that creating a perfect family who did everything right - and passed the quality of inevitable rightness down the generations - would eventually lead to that family having nothing relevant or in any way dramatic to offer the listener? (Maybe they just didn’t realise the show would last so long?)

I mean - pregnancy - twice, as the biggest shock Brookfield could offer? In 21st century Britain. No one cared a jot about the arrival of Rosie. And who could possibly believe that Ben’s mental collapse would mean the entire midlands mental health service downing tools to gather in a circle around Brookfield for about a year, holding hands and singing soothing songs - all with their phones unavailable to anyone not related to Ben Archer? As for Josh - a tiny accounting blip was the worst thing they could throw at him.

Bridge Farm did everything right too - but then there was the death of John - so consequently we’ve had one monomaniac and one needy flake whose every relationship ends in disaster. Making them far more interesting!

I dunno - maybe we need a ten year time jump. Imagine that …

The trouble is we never see Pip in real trouble, or facing a real dilemma where we see her pushed, making hard choices, torn in two, etc. And we never see her responding emotionally. She is a flat character

The situation isn’t helped by the fact she’s poorly acted. The dilemma of whether to have an abortion or not was very real but I don’t think any of us cared either way because her delivery is so two-dimensional. Likewise Ben is pretty wooden and poor old Josh has rubbish lines so even though he’s a good actor he is rarely never given a chance to shine…

They also made a mistake of putting her in the fairbrother love triangle and now with Stella. They are stand alone characters

they need to marry the Brookfield kids within the village - like Alice has done and Emma has done.

so perhaps Ben and Chelsea should get together for that sole purpose (sorry Chelsea). Who would Josh be the right age for?

David Archer turns 65 later this month. At what point will he start planning for retirement?
Jill will be 94 in October - at what point will there be a story around her health? (I know they've already done a cataracts story)
I know Auntie Christine is now a silent character, but they'll have to kill her off at some point; she must be in her nineties, too.
Surely there will be a Brookfield storyline around one of the above soon, although I suppose Auntie Christine's death won't make much impact.

And for that matter, Peggy Wooley is only a couple of months off her 100th birthday. Are they going to celebrate it with Peggy as a silent character? They can't ignore it.

*Woolley

I've long thought that Josh and Ben need new actors if the existing ones are simply too busy. If the scripties need to magic up a 25 year old "Gill" child for one of them to fall in love with, so be it. It is ridiculous that they've not installed speaking characters (or characters that have done anything more than refurbish a kitchen) over the past 5 years.

Harrison needs to go on a pilgrimage or retreat and not come back.

On a more positive note,I did think the writing was good last week.

Isn’t Josh seeing a woman in a band who performed at one of the barn weddings? I can’t think of a character in the village he would be suited to. All of the female characters are either possibly too young/old or related to him. There’s Hannah but she’s incredibly dull.

I still think he was showing signs of unrequited love when he counselled Paul through his tedious breakup with Etienne.

I like Freddie and what the SWs are doing with his character. Lily is awful, but efficient and capable. I hope they will run LL together in future.

Pip on the other hand I hope will fall into the slurry pit or something, leaving Josh to inherit the farm and do something very entrepreneurial with it.

I agree that Fallon is teetering on the edge of the Kirsty zone. I’ve never minded Harrison much, but recently he’s become so tremendously unappealing. I don’t think Alan’s influence helps. I wish all the ‘Christians’ in Ambridge weren’t so ghastly (I did have a soft spot for Shula though)

Yes Freddie and Lily running it together and then he marries a woman like his mother and there will be fireworks!

As it’s so weird storyline wise that Freddie hasn’t had a partner at all yet, I do wonder whether it’s a long game relating to heirs.

Cock-lodger with Alice, surely?

Harrison with Alice will have the added conflict of Alice and Harrison being good friends.

Being an alcoholic didn’t stop Alice’s grandpa running the Bull! 😀

Not really a happy ending, though.

Maybe Shula could come back and Harrison go to Sunderland.
Apologies to any Mackems.

It did, in fairly short order; his wife Peggy had to hold the licence because Shires Brewery wouldn't allow him to be the landlord after his behaviour became 'erratic' (ie after he hit the bottle hard enough for them to notice).

I was just joking @AskingQuestionsAllTheTimeand @EBearhug hence the smiling face.

It was a humorous way of telling people who did not know about Jack that to install Alice in the Bull would family history repeating itself.

Alice and Harrison together would really create drama given all the people involved

if he loses his job I don’t think Fallon will be able to bear the sight of him