Archers thread #171: Harvest's nearly over – but will George ever reap what he has sown? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd have been delighted with a hand-painted squirrel tray for your 40th, as shown below, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

All I have to say about current storylines for now is that I want the George Alice crash stuff to come to a resolution, sooner rather than later, and I also want to hear very little indeed of Alistair, Denise and Paul maundering on. More of Jakob would be very welcome. His brother can come back any time too.

I now declare this thread open for business!

I liked the Susan Tracey part of their chat and those two actors seem to work so well together. I also thought the two teenage boys standing up for the “rights” Of a poor maltreated man against their mum/grandma rang very true, especially their utter cluelessness about whyyyyyy S and T were against Clive and complete failure to ask.

Ditto. I might settle for an espresso instead but I wouldn't be happy.

I'm sorry to have missed the stats discussion (it's not holiday, @LillianGish , it's actually work that's keeping me away - the maths I'm paid to do).

I've missed some episodes, so I'm lacking some connections in the Grundy storyline. When George did his panic flit, he called someone - have we now established that was Clive? Is Clive's return related to George's flit?

Yes and yes, I'm afraid.

I can't see that she will have done - surely in a farming community people are going to be less likely to be interested in vegan options not more? I've seen various things from the Countryside Alliance pushing back on councils etc going vegan and advocating for supporting farmers.

I guess perhaps the EV charging station has a generally different demographic but I'm assuming Fallon is also going to be relying on non-EV people going there too.

And I cannot fathom why on earth she's told Justin. Maybe he's looking for alternative employment for Silent Carlotta, although I suspect she's perhaps being lined up as The Other Woman as Justin won't have liked Lillian over-riding him and arguing back.

@Lalgarh , I know a Clive who was born in the early 1970s.

Maths teaching isn't particularly poor IMO, but people are comfortable with thinking they're hopeless at it.

The standard of English teaching seems generally to be terrible, but people don't generally realise that their English is poor.

If someone corrects someone's calculation, they'll be told 'Oh, I'm rubbish at Maths'; if someone corrects someone else's writing or speech, chances are they'll get their head bitten off.

Crawls back to Pedants' Corner.

@PedantScorner I completely agree - it's weird how people without dyscalculia just say they can't do maths and then don't bother trying. We wouldn't accept that for reading or writing.

I too think vegan won't be popular rurally. I would say I'm semi rural and there isn't much on offer here.

@Bruisername most places do oat milk as default non dairy - that's what I use , sometimes making my own if I can't get the good stuff without oil and gunk in it. Is oat milk un-eco? Genuine question.

Yes, yes, yes. Tracey and Susan's conversation was interesting. Then know it all/ know nothing Brad and George muscled in. So believable, but not praiseworthy, or excusable.

I was at primary school in the 80s (East London) and classes were full of kids called Katie, Louise, Sarah, Mark, Lee and Darren. I was an outlier with a name that was last popular in the 1920s (thanks mum!).

My mum’s name and those of my aunts who were all born in the 1940s are now extremely popular in the area where we live: Edith, Margot, Mathilda and Florence.

Thanks. Sorry to ask more questions: but do we have any insight into what Clive is hoping to achieve by returning to Ambridge? What would happen if he made contact with his father (I caught the discussion between Susan and Tracy about keeping Clive and their father apart)?

Maths teaching isn't particularly poor IMO, but people are comfortable with thinking they're hopeless at it. It doesn't seem to "click" for a substantial group of people.I don't know why. For those who feel comfortable with maths, the teaching is fine, but there seems to be a group of people who don't seem to connect it with the real world.

No, the remain more likely that the one with the icosohedron die to throw a 6, but throwing a six doesn't make them more likely to throw another, There's a 1 in 6 chance that their first throw is a 6, and if their first throw was a six, there's still a 1 in 6 chance that their next throw is a 6.And even if they keep throwing the die and have so far thrown 15 6's (along with, say 18 1's, 14 2s, as 3s etc) the chance that the next throw is a 6 will still be 1 in 6.

What was being discussed re Clive was whether having one life threatening experience made it less likely he'd have another, not whether he was more likely than, say, Emma, to have a life threatening experience.

Yes, but if a random person throws a six, they are more likely to BE the person with the six sided die, than the one with the icosohedral die.

Sorry I've just repeated myself.

What I was trying to say is, if someone has a near death experience, some of them will be one-offs, and some will have an underlying cause. The one's with the underlying cause are more likely to have another one, unless it is identified and treated.
In Clive's case, being an arse is untreatable, and he is just repeating what he heard on anger management training.

My understanding on oat milk is that the manufactured variety can have palm oil in which is not eco friendly

problem with homemade oat milk is that it is nutritionally quite empty. Apparently flax milk is better but probably marginal

i don’t like them being called milks either!! Im not a big milk drinker though so I’ve never felt the need to move to an alternative. If I do it’s generally for the taste - so for eg I quite like a hot chocolate with hazelnut milk

I've only known one Clive and he would have been born in the early eighties.

I know a few Nigels born in the late 1960s. I know a Brenda born in the mid-1960s and one much younger.
One of my neighbours is called Roy, but I don't know his age - I'd say 50-ish.

If I had a choice of a tea room next to a dairy or a vegan one, I wouldn't pick the vegan one. I can go several days of eating only vegan food, but it tends to be unintentional.

I named one of my dogs Shula, and I,ve met two other dogs called .Shula. This was 25-30 years ago though.

Yes, but if a random person throws a six, they are more likely to BE the person with the six sided die, than the one with the icosohedral die. indeed, but their chance of throwing a six on their second throw is still 1in 6, it doesn’t change to 1in 3 just because they threw a 6 on their first throw.

What I was trying to say is, if someone has a near death experience, some of them will be one-offs, and some will have an underlying cause. The one's with the underlying cause are more likely to have another one, unless it is identified and treated. But Brad was arguing against the opposite argument, that someone who had had a NDE was less likely to have another simply because he’d already had one NDE. I covered this on my first post, that the NDEs might be independent random events, (with different levels of probability eg normal person cf arse), that it could be that the first NDE made it more likely that you’d have a second, but that it was hard to think of an example where having one NDE protected you from having another.

There’s two unrelated “dimensions” of probability here 1) the probability of having a NDE compared with other people and 2) the probability of having an NDE for the first time compared with having a second one or a third one.

i don’t like them being called milks either!!

I'm not vegan but have often felt guilt enjoying a latte (the diary industry is very cruel) so am delighted to find oat milk in most coffee shops.

And I'm an outlier on these threads as I don't like talk of calving, lambing or Vince's slaughterhouse. I prefer herbal lay talk (or whatever it was)!

the diary industry is very cruel

All that chronicling of the day's events...

Aren't diary-substitutes better for the environment?

Is a herbal lay what happens when you've had a bit too much of the whacky baccy and had the equivalent of a drunken ONS?

Almond milk isn't. Not sure about soy milk. But am sure that it is disgusting. Vegan cafe idea v foolish I reckon.

Every time Clive is mentioned I hear Stephen Fry's character - Charles Prentice - disparaging Clive the office underling in Absolute Power...