Archers thread #167: Welcome to Ambridge, the world capital of loose ends! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like The Archers to be wall to wall election conversations for the next month, or other unusual views.

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For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Over to you!

do cops use personal phones for cop business? I wouldn’t have thought so. I thought it was only those on insecure minimum wage work who are expected to provide their own mobiles.

I suppose they don't and as I indicate it's a subject about which I am a bit neurotic. In any case, it wouldn't have occurred to me that she would read his messages except in a situation where she suspected him of subterfuge or betrayal and that was the actual storyline.

It will often depend on confidentiality I am sure.

I saw two coppers sitting on a wall on their phones the other week. I’m sure that wasn’t police business! Same in waitrose - shelf stacker blocking half the aisle with the trolley and playing a game on his phone. It’s an addiction

Totally unlike discussing TA on Mumsnet.

Must go and buy catfud.

I think gossiping is part of human nature and for a lot of people they get their fix by talking about soaps/celebs etc

He gave her the phone to look at menus and the text popped up.

Bruisername · Today 08:44
“I think Fallon is at the end of her tether so overreacted. Harrison should have told her - he goes on about wanting to talk but he won’t actually do it. There’s nothing stopping him saying that he’s grieving the fact he won’t be a father and that he understands her position so is trying not to involve her in his coping. But he’s too scared to say it”

I agree about Fallon, but I think Harrison did say it and was trying to calmly explain, despite Fallon being really scathing, insisting he should see it her way and mocking his views (laughing sarcastically when it was referred to as a baby in the prayer) Here’s an excerpt …

F - You knew how I felt about this memorial service but you went ahead and did it anyway

H - It wasn’t a memorial service

F - Can’t you get it into your head once and for all there was no child I had a miscarriage

H - And I heard you love you didn’t want anything public but this was completely different it were very small just me and Alan

F - I don’t care

H - Just to help me deal with the, the loss of what might have been. Why would you want to take that away from me

F - It’s just another example of you bulldozing over me

note: the message specifically referred to prayers (not service)

He had also recently explained to Fallon in a most heartfelt way that he had tried and he had tried but he could not just turn his feelings off.

Although some present Harrison as controlling the relationship, he only agreed not to speak about it because that is what Fallon wanted (fair enough) and when they do it only ends up in a row. The fact that Fallon decided after they were married that she did not want children was a massive compromise for Harrison to make. So it is far from one sided and relationships are all about compromise, but this one currently seems well beyond that.

I think the whole thing is badly written and not believable tbf so it’s hard to defend either

on the deciding after marriage she doesn’t want kids - that’s perfectly within her right. You don’t have to have everything agreed at the point you sign the certificate. So I don’t see why the fact she didn’t say it before marriage is relevant

ah - that sounds like leaving a critical document on the photocopier. You want it to be read but don't want to take responsibility. I'm back to putting the blame on Harrison.

I don’t think Harrison could control the message notification about something that had happened the week before, popping up just after he had brought up the food menus and handed them over to Fallon to choose.

presumably she then actively chose to open the message to read it’s contents

ah - that sounds like leaving a critical document on the photocopier. You want it to be read but don't want to take responsibility. I'm back to putting the blame on Harrison.

I'm not sure - in the message Alan apologised for the delay in sending it through, so it didn't sound like a continuing conversation or that Harrison knew it might come through.

Of course it’s within her rights and I did not suggest differently. Do we know if they even discussed children before marriage. I get the impression that she only made that decision after they were married, so even if they discussed it before marriage it would not have helped. But again absolutely her right and decision and I would say much better than going along with having children you do not want (unless she changed her mind - again her decision).

The reason I mention the fact that she made that decision after they were married, was because of the fundamental impact it would have had on Harrison who presumably assumed (rightly or wrongly) that they would have children. We can see now it was a massive sacrifice for him, that he thought he could make until faced with his understood (albeit brief) reality of a genetically complete pre child of his, existing and developing. The point being, that by the time Fallon made her decision they were much more committed to that relationship as a couple, so much more difficult for him to even consider walking away to meet his own desires re children (which he was also perfectly entitled to, with someone who shares his desires).

As far as badly written it is all fiction and that is what we are commenting on. Of course we can comment on the writing or whatever else we want, but if we are going to build a character as we personally see them, rather than as per the script, then it makes it pretty difficult to meaningfully compare their behaviour.

We will always see characters differently, however well written

Of course, that is part of the fun of it, seeing and understanding other people’s points of view and reasons for them, but at least if we (within context) take the characters known actions and words, we have a relatively factual anchor from which to diverge.

I agree, and also that Fallon is at the end of her tether with it all and just wants to move on.

She's wrong not to let him grieve in his own way but I can understand why she's furious at being co-opted into prayers for the baby and referenced as a parent. It's like she's being forced into a role she didn't want anyway.

On the prayers front, I might quietly ask for peace and healing for someone I feel could use it but I'd not tell them about it. As a PP says, most people mean "I'm thinking of you" when they say "I'll say a prayer for you". Anyone who does the "I will pray for your soul in the hope that you repent and come to God" thing is an arse.

It's actually a very clever storyline.
Harrison will have a nervous breakdown and PTSD after Fallon points out that there never was and never would have been a Plodgeny.
They will sue the doctor as it was all his fault and buy the Bull. This will enable the Pirate and Kenton to sail the seas in a galleon. When they come back, they will bring Johnny Richards Archer and Meriel Archer with them, thus securing the next generation of Archers.

Alice will be unfairly imprisoned, and eventually The Truth Will Out.

Why doesn't anyone point out that Alice's drink-driving evidence is circumstantial?

Why doesn't anyone point out that Alice's drink-driving evidence is circumstantial?

She was found very drunk/passed out in the driving seat of her car, minutes after the accident, and witnesses confirm it was her car that caused the accident.
It would seem a little far fetched for someone to suggest out of nowhere that she was dragged into the driver's seat by the real driver. I know we know that's what happened, but it's not something you'd suggest in real life if you heard about that scenario.

Do you think the PM will stand up in parliament and ask for the freedom of the ambridge one?

Will Harrison show up to Alice’s hearing? I suspect he will not be a policeman by the end of the year

In terms of support - given his lack of care for Fallons accident etc I don’t know why he doesn’t go and stay with his folks for a little while and get some TLC. I don’t think it is right for Fallon to forbid him speaking to his family about it

George Jackson is innocent
Susan Carter is innocent
Deirdre Rachid is innocent
Helen Titchenor is innocent
Alice Carter is innocent

@Bruisername

Will Harrison show up to Alice’s hearing? I suspect he will not be a policeman by the end of the year
I am utterly sick of this storyline and whatever happens to Harrison, a thoroughly stupid man, I hope it happens silently, far away from the radio and (as a bonus) terminally.

I wonder what sort of car Adam has to make Azra notice.

I also wonder, as someone else noted upthread, what the Macy-Craig household finances are like to enable him to afford a nice car:

Adam - Pretty much dismissed for misconduct from Home Farm so wouldn't have got a pay out on leaving.
Now works packing veg boxes, hay baling, and occasionally stepping in to play cruel practical jokes on the working-class women employees.

Ian - walked out from previous temporary employment in a strop with Adil.
Has a pizza van, which we know doesn't cater to the tween boy market but was/is doing well enough to employ other people.

Household - had to steal to cover bills that hadn't been budgeted for.

I can't remember if we heard the details of Jenny's will, in monetary terms. Surely the only explanation left is that Adam got an absolutely humongous pay out from his mother to fund the whole household not having a reliable source of income!

I thought the will was controversial because most went to Martha?

@Bruisername was it not that Alice's share went to Martha and that's why Alice felt Jennydarling didn't trust her?

Ah ok - I missed the start of the SL

so another thing I thought last night was that if I were an alcoholic- listening to azra last night would make me feel pretty hopeless

Doesn’t Ian still work at GG? I thought he agreed to return before Adil left. I know they had a a massive falling out over something but then Adil made it right before leaving.

Re Fallon, I don’t think she knew she didn’t want children until after they were married. I remember the episode when she told Harrison and it seemed as if it had dawned on her as time went on that she didn’t want a child in her life. It might have been after they babysat for his niece. If she knew before they got married and neglected to tell him then that would be a really shit thing to do but I don’t get the impression that was the case. She gave Harrison ample opportunities at the time to tell her if a childless marriage bothered him or if he wanted to discuss it further and he repeatedly said no.