Archers thread #167: Welcome to Ambridge, the world capital of loose ends! Discuss The Archers here.

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Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

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Over to you!

I’m surprised he hasn’t tried to gather evidence of a murder tbh. Perhaps speaking to the doctor again would be helpful

God help us all, sai Tiny Tim. Was that when he was having his hissy-fit at his boss, Inspector Norris, who as a result of his very obvious instability took him off-duty and told him to go at once to the police counsellor, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred pounds?

I think it might have been. He wanted Alice to be charged with murder. You would think he'd have known the legal definition.

Of course even the thought of a public service for something so deeply personal to her must be Fallon's worst nightmare on so many levels. The thought Harrison was planning this behind her back horrifying.

But also feel sorry for Harrison who seems totally lost in his grief for what he sees as his lost child. I agree this has moved on from the accident and murder, to be fixated on the loss and unable to move away from that.

And for Fallon, the pressure to be expected to grieve something she didn't want in the first place must be stultifying. If I was her I'd want to scream that to the rafters but she's trying not to hurt Harrison's feelings.

I suspect his grief is exacerbated by it also being grief for never having children. Which he needs to deal with properly. By all means have a prayer session - after all, presumably his faith means he believes life begins at conception - but then get some proper bloody therapy, man.

He was certainly still brooding on Alice’s culpability and angry that she wouldn’t face ‘justice’ last Friday - and it seems logical to assume what he had in mind was the loss of his heir* since Alice will, as things currently stand, be up in court for driving while ratarsed.

Quite apart from it being a good thing in and of itself, an end to the Rogers/Burns marriage will be something else Alice will be blamed for, and thus eventually end up on George’s grime sheet. Jam!

*he should form a support group with Johnny, should he ever return from that knocking shop in Brazil

They said, at the time of The Ambridge Almost Chappaquiddick, that the consequences would be "life changing".
It's set up some consequences (George maintaining his lie and becoming a hero, Alice leaving, Fallon/ Harrison turmoil over lost but not lost Baybay) , but is something else bubbling under?

is something else bubbling under?

Denise's gut if there's any justice in this world.

I feel very very sorry for Fallon having to process her own post-trauma experience (she came so close to drowning) with no support from her partner Harrison also is processing grief without support from his partner.

Fallon is being unfair to Harrison. Won’t let him talk to her, and won’t let him talk to anyone else either

Harrison chose to marry a woman who was explicit about not wanting to have children. If knowing that he was not going to become a father was going to occasion grief, it must have started when he agreed to that, and he has had time to work his way though it.

That may be partly why he has been so unprofessional over the last year or so - trying to control and heal everything in the world. Suddenly putting on this performance when Fallon has had a genuine near-death experience is self indulgent and probably insane.

He was directed to get counselling by a boss who wouldn't be in the job she is in without knowing something about police having breakdowns and how dangerous they can be to themselves and others- did he follow that order?

Harrison chose to marry a woman who was explicit about not wanting to have children. If knowing that he was not going to become a father was going to occasion grief, it must have started when he agreed to that, and he has had time to work his way though it.

You would think, wouldn't you? Past and very bitter experience tells me that a) such men often hear what they want to hear and the realisation that saying no to kids actually means not having kids ever and that you actually meant what you said comes as quite the shock, and b) it will be your fault that they didn't listen, even though you repeated yourself like a stuck record for years.

she was listening last night and he chose to walk away

Which makes me feel even less sympathy for him.

I daresay he didn't hear his boss ordering him to get counselling either. Damn our squeaky little lady voices that the poor men can't hear.

Which bits of her several efforts to support and comfort him don't count?

She gave up on him after he rushed screaming into the night at her for the second or third time. He is traumatised because (for the 14,217th day of his life) he didn't have a baby on 6th May this year and his wife doesn't understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand him; she is traumatised because she was nearly killed, had a painful miscarriage and has a husband who clearly doesn't give a toss about either of these things.

I know whose trauma has a real cause, and who needs a kick up the arse.

BrightYellowDaffodil
after all, presumably his faith means he believes life begins at conception

Hang on: he is ordinary CofE, isn't he? I am not at all sure that particular dogma is a requirement. In fact I am reasonably sure it is not.

"The Church of England’s essential stance on embryology was established at the July 2003 General Synod."
https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2017-11/embryology-and-related-topics.pdf
"In effect, this has meant that in subsequent submissions, MPA has accepted that, under certain circumstances, embryo research may be permissible as long as the intention is to alleviate human suffering, no viable alternative method is available, that all embryos are treated with respect and not permitted to develop beyond the UK legal limit of 14 days."

Not to mention that anyone who sincerely believes that, really does need to be reminded that his or her god is responsible for the deaths of more than half these live creatures, through ordinary spontaneous abortion.

Harrison chose to marry a woman who was explicit about not wanting to have children. If knowing that he was not going to become a father was going to occasion grief, it must have started when he agreed to that, and he has had time to work his way though it. As I understood it this was NOT something discussed before they got married, but only came to light afterwards. As I recall (possibly entirel inaccurately) Harrison was a bit taken aback when Fallon revealed her hand, but went along with it (possibly thinking she would one day change her mind??)

That would change things - I'd understood they did discuss it, but I have always disliked him so probably wasn't listening too hard.

If they were Catholics they could get a church annulment if one of them was determined not to have children.

I thought they’d discussed before marriage so would be interesting to know if they did

Surprised Emma wants to keep bartleby. Nice George shows loyalty!! Gem mentioned!! But the brothers and Eddie are complete sods - Joe would be spinning in his grave. and they’d sell to someone only two have them met. And those two people want to keep!! What arseholes

the lesson in democracy was a bit heavy handed

no doubt it will be Brian who clicked the dodgy link - wrote that before it was revealed 🙄

but how unprofessional to get your girlfriend to speak to your boss

the Weirdest flatmates to ever have been written

so tomorrow night it’s Paul, Lily, Josh, Fallon and Kirsty on the town

Democracy 101 …

How old is poppy to have a mobile phone?

And why would you ask two kids to be included in the vote

Would only the person who wanted children be allowed the annulment, or would the refusenik also be able to apply?

I don't know how it works - one person I know who got one on that basis was married to a total stinker and may have had to apply without the stinker's input. The other couple I know probably applied together as they realised they had made a mistake.

Before divorce was legal in Ireland people who had got Church first then legal annulments tended not to talk about it (no idea whether that was a legal requirement) leading to much speculation and discussion among their friends. Determination not to have children was generally seen as more socially acceptable than insanity or non-consummation.

They married on 17th August, 2018, hosted Harrison's brother's brat Daisy in July 2020, and Fallon told her mother she never wanted to have children on 1st October 2020, and Harrison on 20th October the same year (when he started going on about having them, while they were in a car in the Cotswolds). Fallon definitely not wanting children (he said something about it being now or never for them and she said that as far as she was concerned it would be never) came as a shock to him, but the following day (after she had agonised, and even told him she would understand if he divorced her and found someone who did want to have his children) he had a natter with Wise Old Counsellor Rex, got over his disappointment about not getting something he hadn't said he wanted before he was told he couldn't have it, and told her that she mattered more to him than children possibly could. Lowfield 21st October has

Harrison tells Fallon he does want a child; she instantly assumes that means it's all over and starts taking on, but he says that isn't it at all, that he doesn't think it's over and he doesn't want a child if it means losing her. He can't imagine his life without her, and he can imagine it without a child who doesn't even exist. The non-existent child can just disappear. He's been really thinking about it; she'd be proud of how hard he's been thinking about it. It may take a while for the dream to fade, but she is all he wants. She cries and asks him to kiss her.

So he's been living with the unresolved fantasy for more than three and a half years. Poor Fallon.

Poppy was born on 30th September, 2013.

Poppy is more a Grundy than Mia or Jake, who have no Grundy blood at all.

You would give votes to the offspring so there could be a tied vote again, only they chose to duck that one.