Archers thread #166: Choppy waters in Ambridge! Look out for the red flags and discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd love to be married to Harrison, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Another thread started in great haste, mid-packing! Over to you.

The only evidence of Brad's much vaunted genius is he can do mental arithmetic. Big deal. In every other situation he's an idiot. Such is the state of maths education that the average person who didn’t take maths further than GCSE is unable to conceive of any maths other than basic arithmetic. So doing basic arithmetic in your head seems like a big deal.

That was a part of it. But in a town where there was a large scientific establishment, there must have been some understanding that they were doing something important. Bletchley Park was secret, but a scientific establishment of several thousand in a town couldn’t achieve that level of secrecy - you didn’t know what they were doing, but you knew they were doing something.

Of course, having a young scientist billeted on you while your own son was fighting abroad didn’t help.

If I could give Brad careers advice I'd be steering him towards Statistics rather than Pure Maths. He seems from what we've heard good with numbers rather than a creative thinker good at spotting patterns.

Lots of very very good Mathematicians can't do mental arithmetic. I'm not a mathematician but I struggle to do maths without a pen or pencil and scrap of paper.

Just turned on and goodness - George sounds so like his step-dad! A rougher version, but still - really like Ed.

When I was at school Arithmetic and Mathematics were taught as separate (Scottish) Ordinary Grade subjects.

Mathematics at that level was algebra, geometry and calculus.

This was pre calculators. Mental arithmetic was simply a basic tool of life, same as reading, taught from Primary One.

This was pre calculators. Mental arithmetic was simply a basic tool of life, same as reading, taught from Primary One.

You still need some mental arithmetic, so you know if the calculator answer makes sense, or if you mistyped something.

I don't care what course Brad does as long as
. it is a good course at a good uni
. he goes on to get a good job needing that degree
I'd like him to rise up and succeed.

Alas, he is going to go the Felpersham because he's too scared to leave home, and wants to be with his girlfriend.

Warwick can't be too far away, surely?

He went to a single open day (probably Durham, I think was decided from various clues on air), didn't enjoy it much, and on the basis of that made up his mind he was going to go to Felpersham like Mia, and was not prepared to go to any more open days at the universities which had offered him a place.

Indeed. And there is at least one paper for GCSE maths which is a non calculator paper to make sure they still learn mental arithmetic.

I thought he went to Durham before submitting his UCAS form. I don't recall hearing anything at all about where he applied and whether he got any offers. Nothing about applying for accommodation, filling in student finance forms, A level revision. I may be a bit odd, but I'd rather have been hearing about this kind of thing than Alistair and Denise or the D Day evening.

Same, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g - both the recollection and the preference.

Little treat for you all - I'd forgotten about this until someone reminded me.
Glorious
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p03s9l4

I am OLD and did maths and science GCEs in the 60s and don't recall any of us even owning calculators, let alone being allowed to use them. In those days they were probably as big as an old-fashioned shop till. It would be quite a nuisance not to be able to do mental arithmetic, though, and I'm surprised that anyone in Ambridge was so impressed by Brad being able to tot up the bill and give the correct change without electronic assistance.

I had bar jobs in the late 70s and early 80s. The tills didn't do the adding up for the bar staff. I kept a running total in my head as I poured each drink.

I'd like Brad to go far away too.

I'm fairly sure that pocket calculators didn't exist in the 60s; I was taught how to use a slide rule at one point for my O-level.

And I remember working in Sainsburys at Christmas in it-must-have-been-1972 and boggling the minds of the customers by mentally keeping a running total of the bill as I rang things in, then announcing that total just before I pressed the "total" key on the till. It was amazingly easy after a couple of days of stultifying boredom, and meant I wasn't sitting at my till working out ever more baroque ways to steal from my employers.

I'm not sure they existed in the 1970s. We didn't have them at school. I sat Ordinary Grade Maths and Arithmetic in 1974 and Higher Maths in 1975. I didn't have a calculator. used slide rules, log tables and worked out long division and multiplication on paper.

I did O Levels in 1971 and had to use a slide rule and Log tables. I've never used them since and couldn't even tell you what Log tables were.

Calculators definitely existed in 1977 as my father bought me this for Christmas pre 1978 O’levels
https://retrounit.com.au/products/vintage-casio-fx-39-scientific-calculator-1978-with-manual
Certainly wasn’t allowed to use it in exams, still had to grapple with a slide rule. When I worked in engineering in mid 1980s some of the old engineers still used slide rules and were pretty quick with their calculations.

I did O level Maths in 1977. One girl in my maths class owned a calculator. It was a thing of wonder, passed around so we could all marvel at it. She was not allowed to use it in exams. In the sixth form I think my classmates doing Maths and Science A levels did have scientific calculators if they could get them. In the early 1980s when I met my husband (three Maths A levels to his name - Pure, Applied and Further) he had a Casio scientific calculator and it seemed a lot less exotic by then.

We had to do calculus and I dimly recall that was why we had to learn to use log tables. I can remember nothing about any of this now. I was not a natural mathematician. I was good at arithmetic and after that it all went downhill.

I bought a calculator whenI started university in 1977. It was big and expensive, felt like I was proper lashing out. It may have been the casio in the photo.

I had to do , and sit an exam in, accountancy for lawyers in 1982. We were allowed to use calculators for that.

The tutor, who was a real life working accountant despaired of us. All I can remember of it was his telling us to remember what went in the DR and CR columns, even if we didn't understand why and even if it seemed counterintuitive. And don't worry if you can't get it to balance as long as your workings are correct.

1977 @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g? You were either a year ahead of me or did Maths a year early! (Think we’re pretty much the same age?)

I had a calculator in 1978 when I took all my O’ Levels. Possibly most or even all the class had them. (Selective independent girls’ school.) But in truth, beyond basic plus and minus it was as impenetrable to me as the wretched log tables. Unfortunately for my parents, paying for my education didn’t result in paying for someone who could help Maths make sense to me.

(I have also completely forgotten why we’re talking about calculators.)