Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

Who are other people’s favourite and least favourite characters?
Hard to say because my dislike of George doesn't compare to my dislike of Pip.
I like most characters, but some have traits I don't like.

Best value character: Brian
Bringing least to the party: Pip

I think you need one of those 2x2 tables beloved of life/career consultants.

Like; and always good to see them in a SL
Lynda, Robert, Brad, Jakob, Jim, Jazza

Like, but make for boring or unpleasant SLs
Ben

Don’t like, but always good to see them in a SL
Susan, Emma, Will, Natasha, Kate

Don’t like, and make for boring or unpleasant SLs
Harry, Fallon, Jolene, Kenton

I cant stand Mia.

I think she’s a good example of the writers doing a good job with a potentially complex character. I find her sometimes sanctimonious and lacking self-awareness, but she’s also probably right to be so angry about the climate crisis. I’ll be interested see how she matures as a character and whether she’s able to direct all that energy productively.

I suppose it depends whether you mean love, like and loathe as a character or a real person? I like Kate as a character but expect I would find her a bit irritating as a sister in law for example.

Wouldn't they do the training first, then get the equipment? Or do they need to show up with a chainsaw etc. Bit like going to school with pencil case and protractor.

Yes, for me there’s love (Brian, Kenton, Kirsty, Josh, Leonard, and formerly, Jennifer), love to hate (Helen), just hate (Pip), and for most of the others it depends on the storyline. I enjoy David’s character a lot, ditto Lilian, Susan, Lynda, Will, Adam (one of my faves until that strange story when he basically stole from Home Farm), Jim, Jazzer, Tracy, Brad, Joy, and formerly, Roy 🥲 I dislike Alice, Tom, Eddie and George. I like the occasional characters like the BL bigwig whose name escapes me but who also plays Maurice, Charles Paris’s agent.

It's interesting that Pip is so widely despised - the heir presumptive to Brookfield and Phil Archer's namesake. How much of that is down to the actress and how much to storylines? Original Pip (terrible actress) was replaced with Daisy Badger who imo was not much better which certainly hasn't helped. In terms of writing - I could tell you a lot of stuff about Pip (Pope of farming, single mother, World's First Lesbian), but I don't feel as if I really know her. She feels quite disconnected from the other Brookfield Archers who to my mind have never really gelled as a believable family (not helped by the Great North Move debacle) and even less so since Jill disappeared from the scene (she seemed to draw them altogether somehow). They used to feel like the first family of Ambridge (Dan and Doris and then Phil and Jill), but latterly have felt much more peripheral. It feels a bit like a thread has been pulled and now it's all slightly falling apart - the connections between LL, Brookfield, Kenton at the Bull and Shula at The Stables used to knit everything together somehow and I don't feel that anymore.

I looked it up. There's quite a lot to it - and that's before you factor in their total lack of real world experience!

How to become a tree surgeon | Indeed.com UK

I think Pip is badly acted and I find the delivery awful. Not all actors can do radio and there’s nothing wrong with that!

perhaps better actors would have helped

in terms of character - I feel it’s bad because they have as the sainted one with her parents. The interactions feel off. Whereas their interactions with their sons seems more natural

agree that the Brookfield archers have become peripheral which is a shame because they do sit in a big sibling web that encompasses most of the village

the connections between LL, Brookfield, Kenton at the Bull and Shula at The Stables used to knit everything together somehow and I don't feel that anymore.

Exactly this. And Brookfield feeling peripheral. The SWs just can’t seem to knit them into the wider community in any realistic way nowadays. They’re so closed off - no villagers regularly employed there as cleaner, handyman, farm worker, etc - so no gossip goes in or out, and spurious reasons have to be invented for any villager or even relatives to visit the farm. (Usually Lynda about some ‘show’.) Stella only interacts with Pip - and nothing hangs on it. In terms of drama it’s pretty much dead right now.

How much of that is down to the actress and how much to storylines?
Neither, IMO. It's the character. There isn't anything likeable about her. She's not even a baddie we love to hate.

Original Pip (terrible actress)
Not IMO. Old Pip was ghastly but a character I enjoyed hearing.
was replaced with Daisy Badger who imo was not much better which certainly hasn't helped.
Her delivery seems better now.

Cut and pasted from a site:

Tree Surgery Combination Arborist Course

The Tree Surgery Combination Course is our 4- week course for those who are looking to start a new career in Tree Surgery / Arboriculture. Or for those who currently work within the industry and would like to obtain the training and relevant tickets.

All our courses are run on weekdays, with Assessments on Saturdays or during the week following the training. This varies and depends on Assessor’s availability. We run courses every month during the year.

Our course provides a successful candidate with the following qualifications:

NPTC Unit 201 (CS30) – Chainsaw Maintenance and Crosscutting
NPTC Unit 202 (CS31) – Felling and Processing Trees up to 380mm in diameter
NPTC Unit 203 (CS38) – Tree Climbing and Aerial Rescue
NPTC Unit 204 (CS39) – Using a Chainsaw from a Rope and Harness
NPTC Qualification (222). – Use of Woodchippers
LANTRA Cert – Basic Tree Inspection (BTI)

The NPTC Assessments for 201/202 (Chainsaw and Felling units) and 203/204 (Climbing and aerial cutting units) are undertaken by an independent NPTC assessor. The cost of these assessments is fully covered by your course fees. We arrange the assessments within a few days of the end of the felling course. However, you may choose to defer the climbing assessments until after course for the following reasons:

Passing the chainsaw maintenance, cross-cutting and felling (CS30/31) NPTC units 201/202 is a pre-requisite for the CS39 Aerial Cutting training and assessment (NPTC Unit 204), if a candidate does not pass CS30 or CS31, we will do our best to book the retake of CS30 or CS31 before the CS39 training commences.
If a candidate does not pass CS38 Tree climbing & aerial rescue – NPTC Units 203 – we will rebook the assessment and give the candidate the option of using CS39 aerial cutting training days to recap.
Climbing is a skill that can take some time to become proficient at, and consequently, a candidate who takes the time to practice and hone his skills is much more likely to pass. Because the assessment involves undertaking two simulated rescues, the speed of movement in the tree is important and this takes practice.

We sometimes recommend candidates delay the assessments to gain more experience. Working within the industry and climbing for a few months (which is perfectly legal as long as they are with a qualified climber) and then book their relevant climbing assessment.

NPTC is a national organisation and the climber can then either take the assessment locally or come back to us and take it here in Kent.

If we have sufficient numbers we can often arrange a 1-day refresher on the day before the Assessment. If a candidate has a specific reason for deferring the assessment, (for example because they are going abroad) it is not usually a problem to arrange the assessment for a later date. Deferring your assessment can be arranged, however, this does need to be organised in advance as we book the Assessors months in advance and will require another candidate to take your place.

Cost and Booking

Course fee: £3300.00 pp (including VAT & Assessments)

NPTC Assessments are taken the next day (where possible) following the training.

Candidates must supply their own PPE

Instructors hire out chainsaws, felling equipment and climbing kits should you need to hire one for the duration of your course. Please contact the office to book this ahead of your course.

A lot of my dislikes and hates are based on things the characters did a long, long time ago. I guess IRL they would have been forgotten about and matured. But it's just how the characters were during my formative years. I'll never be able to move on from Brian as an adulterer, Will as a misogynist, one time when Susan was an absolute cow to Clarrie (in what was clearly meant as a comedic episode) ...

Love: Ian, Shula, Alistair (pre Denise), Jim, Jazzer, Tracy, Brad, Chelsea, Kenton, Chris, Jakob, old Robert, Kirsty, Alan, Usha, Mia, Oliver, Rex
Like: Neil, Clarrie, Lynda, Jill, Leonard, Elizabeth, Jolene, David, Ruth, Harrison, Fallon, Ben, Johnny, Denise, Tony, Pat
Neutral: Stella, Hannah, Joy, Helen, Alice
Dislike: Pip, Kate, Josh, Lily, Freddie, Brian, Will, Emma, Peggy, new Robert, Lilian, Tom, Natasha
Detest: Susan, Eddie, Ed, George, Justin, Martyn, Vince, Ruairi, Hazel, Paul, Mick

So Ed and Emma are paying that sort of course fee twice over?

Jeez!

And why haven’t they looked to hire the equipment as suggested in @ClickyHeels‘ link?

Madness …

I can't bear Pip's elocution lessons accent. Just not quite "there" on any front.

Natasha has gone from being high-powered businesswoman to ‘I’ll cover Emma’s shifts in the Terum’.

I am starting to feel sorry for Hannah. I don’t like her particularly but she always seems to get the fuzzy end of the lollipop.

I’m shipping Hannah and will. Purely to piss off george

My extensive research (quick search) found a few courses but the ones I looked at were similar in content.

@TottersBlankly , they're paying less because there's a grant they've applied for.

I’m shipping Hannah and will. Purely to piss off George
I like this.

They spoke about the grant a while ago and I looked it up. They've missed it for this year according to the site I found then. But I cba to see if I can find it again so the govmint may have decided that we need more trees cut down, and provided some new grants since the New Year since they have so much spare money sloshing around.

Oh YES! Excellent thought!

Anything that involves conclusively pissing off George gets my vote.

If only they had made Hannah sound more of a catch. (Sorry Hannah!) I can never forget that Will’s original great love is now a Hollywood film star, and the second is evolving into another powerhouse Carter, like her mother. And Nic was … a saint. Hannah just doesn’t seem able to hold a candle to the competition.

I was disappointed we didn’t get Stella and Will - that would have been fabulous as she’d have elevated him to a different social class, making for potentially interesting listening. Hannah would bring nothing new to his life.

Gosh! I'd never noticed it was the same actor. Character in TA is Martyn Gibson, actor is Jon Glover. Martyn is very much a love to hate character. Not used enough, but I suppose he doesn't live in Ambridge.

If only they had made Hannah sound more of a catch. In a nutshell.

Yes, Hannah sounds like Eeyore with the addition of a chip on his shoulder.

Agree that Stella and Will would have been interesting. Actually anything that adjusts one or more of the Grundy’s fortunes would be interesting, particularly if there’s the juxtaposition of an Archer going down.