Archers thread #163: Too much aggro, not enough agri! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LikeTalkingToLassie for the thread title idea! She and @LillianGish had fun with this theme on the last thread:

More farmer, less drama
More ploughing, less rowing
There's mileage in silage.
More sheds, fewer beds.

All good points. Fair to say nobody on the last thread was delighted to see the return of Harry. I think we all agree that Alice is a blithering idiot to get involved with him again. Most of us also think that Miranda is up to no good. Other storylines in play at the moment:

Alistair and Denise, with the massive complication of John and Paul
Ed and Emma - another doomed Grundy enterprise? Does Will still have the will to wang them some wonga?
Whither George - YouTube sensation or Borchester Magistrates' Court?
Will Markie cause mayhem at The Bull?
Will Harrison haul him in to Borchester nick?
Will Hannah get off with Chris?
Will we ever get used to the new Robert?
Will there ever be a new Roy?
Why do we hear so little from Brookfield now? (Although if we never heard Pip again, I for one would be delighted)
Will Stella dump Pip?

There are probably others I've missed. Over to you!

I think it would be out of character for Jakob not to say something. She was very manipulative but I think he will crack because he will know it’s the wrong thing to hide it.

she’s missing work and getting other people to look after her child and drinking while the child is in the house. It’s already pretty bad

as for Chelsea - I find it hard to believe after her experience at the orange tie this is how she behaves

I had to think about orange tie for a minute 🤣.

I think you are right about Jakob. He won't be able to lie to Kate or Chris.

I thought the SWs wrote Alice's manipulation of Jakob beautifullly, very clever how she wound him round her finger.

Chelsea is so annoying and im sure Natasha wil get rid of her soon and the pub job would have gone as well so she will be back to square one and blaming everyone but herself. Sniff!

She was annoying, but she had a point - they should be trying to sell extras like cake with every coffee, and they should be trying to sell top-ups or get tables cleared, though it didn't sound like it was that busy, so Robert leaving wouldn't have resulted in more paying customers getting put through.

I thought Alice's manipulation of Jakob was really Alice making excuses for herself to justify her actions in her own mind - it's just a blip, all the stuff with Harry, the death of Jenny etc. I would think Kate would drag it out of him - so do I. Just as Alice manipulated Jakob into staying silent, Kate will manipulate him into spilling the beans. Is it just coincidence that Lilian and Kate suspected Alice of falling off the wagon before it actually happened or is it possible that's what put the idea in her head in the first place - sort of giving her permission to lapse? Still no farming - Bridge Farm has basically shrunk to the Te Rum. It's ironic that since the installation of the window on the dairy we the listeners have had fewer and fewer peeks inside.

Yes she was being annoying but these are all techniques that - with time - will help her build her business

I wondered that about Alice and thought that the deception around what she was doing with Harry marked a general backslide which prefigured the drinking. I’m no expert but it did seem a bit odd how she seemed so sensible and definite in her initial rejection of him and then so quickly crumbled into clearly inappropriate interactions with him. Maybe that’s a realistic portrayal of addiction though. I hope it’s a small relapse and everything doesn’t fall apart.

I’m very easily annoyed by characters but for some reason don’t find Chelsea annoying - I think there’s something likeable about her. Maybe it’s because I’m a teacher and she reminds of the mixture of maturity and immaturity that’s so common in older students most of whom are, ultimately, pretty likeable. Completely agree about the business sense thing. I hope she is developed as a character who builds a really successful business.

I don't generally find Chelsea annoying but she was annoying yesterday. She thought she knew far better than Emmur how to do the job that Emmur has been doing for years. Hovering over a known regular would probably put him off returning.

The cafe didn’t sound busy (Chelsea mentioned there ‘should’ be a rush shortly) and treating a loyal customer so shabbily doesn’t show she has a good sense for business. It’s cheaper to retain customers on a long term basis than it is to acquire new ones who may make ad-hoc or just a one or visit. I thought her attempts at upselling the cake were cringeworthy and intrusive and I wouldn’t employ someone who was so rude to customers.

I’m sorry as I know many like her but Chelsea is someone I would avoid IRL. I find her adenoidal, sing-song voice deeply irritating.

True

On Golgafrincham, they know what to do with the likes of her: a prime candidate for Ark Fleet Ship B. Bring on the Star Goat 🐐 (perhaps a bit too farmingy?)

I think it’s a case of her having drive and enthusiasm and a general awareness of some good principles like upselling, but little skill in actually implementing these things effectively yet, at least in a cafe environment where she has no experience. I’m hopeful for her because I think the innate drive she has sets her apart a bit (and can be difficult to instil in someone who doesn’t have it) and I think the nuance and subtlety that she lacks at this point can be learned (hopefully!). I do understand why people find her annoying though.

But she does have experience of working in a cafe - the Orangery.

And as we know from Lily's poorly-worded commands to Brad,hard-selling lumps of cake to coffee/tea-drinkers is the norm in Lily's little life. The Orangery is the catering establishment Lily knows. It may be that while they fondly imagine they are a Cut Above, they are actually just a tea-room for trippers.

I think Alice fell off the wagon a while back, and that was why she viciously attacked Kate and Lilian for daring to question her in any way: she went for them before they'd had a chance actually to say anything about her possible drink problem. She has tended before to use attack as the best means of defence.

Well yes, I can’t believe the behaviour she displayed in the Tea Room would really be encouraged in the Orangery but she said she won Employee of the Month there🤷🏽‍♀️

I’m not sure she is capable of learning nuance and subtly. She doesn’t like to take instructions and it seems unlikely she’d take on board advice about changing her approach to customers.

It would be interesting to hear her interacting with Natasha who, for all her faults, would be good for Chelsea as she will not put up with stroppy petulance.

True

You may be right. Let’s hope as she matures that she does learn from experience and perhaps a bit of mentoring from someone like Natasha.

The whole Harry/falling off the wagon/ manipulation of Jakob was so horribly realistic to me at least that I am going to struggle to listen until this storyline has passed its peak.

It would be interesting to hear her interacting with Natasha who, for all her faults, would be good for Chelsea as she will not put up with stroppy petulance.

Wasn’t it Natasha who offered unexpected sympathy when Chelsea was pregnant? (If I’ve mis-remembered that I really will have to give up listening!)

I also think that Natasha would probably be pleased that Chelsea is doing this; she seems to be the business-first type, more interested in profits. Perhaps they’ll get along well. I’d prefer for them to clash personalities for the entertainment value, though.

You're right @TottersBlankly so no need to exile yourself - it was a rather nice, well acted, well scripted interaction as I recall. Made me warm to Gnasher who I hadn't previously liked that much.

Jakob cannot possibly have believed any minimisation or excuses from someone he knows is an alcoholic, knows is drinking, forgetting, dropping her phone, hiding bottles and whom he has caught out lying during the actual conversation.

I expect he just nodded along and intends to tell his bird or Chris or SS.

I thought Alice lying about supporting Harry was the first step back into alcoholism. I don't think Jakob is going to say anything. This is the beginning of a summer of secret drinking I think.

Oh, does Jakob have a parrot?