Archers thread #158: Te Rum? You numpty, numpty, Tom! Empty tearoom follows. Christmas coming, farmers’ stand up, will it make us LOL? No! Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Tom Archer is a great businessman, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the title idea, which may plant an earworm if my scansion just about holds up. @BeatriceBatchelor wanted 'plebby coffee' inserted in reference to my Bolivian coffee anecdote on the last thread, so I'll mention it here instead. Here's hoping Fallon and Emma decamp to the charging station or Grey Gables, or both, to run the type of coffee shop/tearoom people actually enjoy spending time in. Tom's cauliflower eclairs and kale criossants approach sounds more likely to drive the casual trade away from the farm shop and cheese window as well as the Google Translate-named Te Rum.

Feeling very uninspired by TA at the moment, so I have nothing more to say for now. Over to you!

Looking back, I wonder if the decision to write in boy/girl twins for Nigel was a deliberate plan-ahead for exposing the injustice of male primogeniture.
Of course.

Nigel's sister is called Camilla, ad she is married to Piers. I can't remember if there are children, but I think not.

Julia and Ellen were terrific, and I still miss Nigel

They missed a trick by not having the twins brought up by Nigel. Would have been much more interesting characters

faffadoodledo
It's possible the Trust is a permanent thing and that LL sits within it, sheltered.

If that were the case Nigel and Elizabeth would not have had any occasion to discuss selling off one of the (five) farms to pay for the dry rot in the roof, or was it for the death-watch beetle, I forget, because the farms too would be sacrosanct. Elizabeth was not allowed to do it after Nigel's death because she is not the owner of the estate and the trustees properly did not allow her to reduce its value speculatively.

If the Trust were permanent there would have had to be discussion about Nigel turning Lower Loxley Hall into a tourist attraction, too, and there was none.

On a different matter, Lily's inheritance: we were not told at any point that Lily inherited art or jewellery. Nigel was supposed to have left eighteenth birthday presents for Lily and Freddie sitting in the bank (the way everyone does when their children are pre-teen and there is no clue what they will be interested in or like in eight years' time). Lily got a Gwen John picture (Nigel knew nothing whatever about art, so that was singularly improbable except as a way for her to get off with the art teacher at college) and Freddie got his grandmother's emerald engagement ring (which would be so useful to him, and I expect he wears it all the time...)

And almost certainly a great deal nicer, in Lily's case; we had heard him gently talking Lily out of an irrational and unpleasant bout of jealousy because Freddie got a better part than she did in some stage production or other, for instance. He would also have felt able to laugh at her airs and graces, which Elizabeth has signally failed to do because she has no sense of humour whatever, like Peggy. And he would probably have been able to suggest to both of them that academic achievement is not the be-all and end-all, and lack of it isn't either, and that constant boasting about it is merely boring rather than a good idea.

I've always been bemused at the decision to ditch Nigel. The actor didn't want to leave, the character was one of the best, most joyful and interesting of the Ambridge residents and made a refreshing contrast with many of the other rather moany men in TA.

A light went out for me when he fell off that roof - if that's not being too melodramatic about it!

From what Graham Seed said afterwards, I gathered that he was told that Nigel was being killed off because he was a well-liked character and popular with the listeners. I have a memory that someone told us Vanessa Whitburn had said it was because she "had to make an impact"; I remember this because someone acerbically remarked that it was nothing like as big as the one poor Nigel made on the drive.

Getting shot of Nigel was not a clever move. LL has been desperately dull ever since his departure

They eastenders’d it. Short term hit with no view of the long term

No, @Bruisername , they Brooksided it.

Joy makes a chicken last a week, she's a secret mumsnetter! I hope that includes feeding Helen and the boys.

Oh Christmas is going to be hilarious 🙄

Thank you for your posts, @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime, those are both so informative to a much shorter term listener, as I am, and also made me smile.

Freddie got his grandmother's emerald engagement ring (which would be so useful to him, and I expect he wears it all the time...) Standard thing, isn’t it? Grandma’s engagement ring goes to one of the boys so he can give it to his fiancée as an engagement ring.

Any modern bride-to-be out there fancy a 1930’s cut diamond solitaire?

I'm really glad if I'm being some help with clarification; the flip side of asking questions all the time is that then one has the answers, after all. And if I have them, I might as well share them!

Ha. Yes, I am one of four girls and my grandmother gave the ring to my sister’s soon-to-be-fiancé so he could propose using it. Heaven defend us against the notion that women might propose themselves!

@Alwaysdieting said
Why is it that Paul always organises stuff thats not the norm. 1st it was that escape room with Alistair and jakob then this rage room or what ever.

I suppose that is* Paul'*s character. Which is consistently written. There are many many posts on previous threads complaining about inconsistency of characterisation.

I am still hugely enjoying TA and finding the conversations plausible and well written, including many things some posters doubt e.g. I definitely sound a bit coy when talking to people about their (or my) love lives, and I suspect this is fairly common.

Hearing Lily and Paul rhapsodizing about spending Christmas in their pyjamas made me think about MN Xmas threads over the years. Many love to spend Xmas day in their pyjamas but it doesn't appeal to me. Do they spend all day in the ones they've slept in, or shower and put on a fresh pair?

It's gross isn't it! I don't get the appeal of spending the day in pyjamas at all. I also think it's weird and selfish to stay home rather than go to your mum's for Christmas when you're 25, child free and live round the corner.

It was cheesy but kind of sweet that Paul invited joy for Christmas. Much nicer than the original plot.

didn’t Lily sound exactly like Kate though?

Lily, Kate and Alice sound a bit indistinguishable at times

Or maybe your mum, having had to Do Christmas for many years, would be delighted if you left her in peace and quiet and didn't force her to pretend Christmas was a wonderful occasion on which nobody ever quarrelled or was sick or had a headache or was horribly overworked because of having to Do Christmas.

I wonder when we are going to get the Rochelle story?

Yes they must be building up to The Rochelle Story now, surely? unless it is destined to be forever a MacGuffin.

If I were Mick I’d be a bit put out- Joy’s reason for not joining him and his brother was that she prefers to be at home!

That sounded heartfelt! I am fortunate to come from a long line of Scots who don't make a big deal out of Christmas. We've managed to keep things manageable here, especially since the children have grown up. It's just a pleasant break now, with lots of food and no pressure to do anything very much. I'd be very sorry not to have the family come together on the day, though.

Depends on how far-flung a family, really. When they are in Dubai, South Sudan and Stavanger, and slightly more distantly related ones in Münster, Perth (Western Australia), Guadalajara, Tel Aviv and somewhere in Argentina as well as Perth (Scotland), I think them not deciding all to drop round on one particular day of the year is a blessing.