Archers thread #157: How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless clan! Discuss The Grundys here. Bicker about The Archers as well if you like.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the idea of making it clear in the title many of us are inveterate bickerers!

Now over to you, as we are about to eat and I won't hear tonight's offering till later ....

It looks like staying away and letting him die in peace. Just as simple as that. Not going along in the first place would have been a good "not" for her to do.

There was no need for all the histrionics and faffdoodle, she could just think "good, he'll be dead and we don't need to worry about him any more" and get on with her life. She managed to do that when he went away to the States and she forgot that he existed for six years, after all.

I heard it as "I'm begging". Or possibly "I beg you", because it was linked with "please" and "come back".

She went to give the card so she could tell Jack that she had not tried to block. She stayed because she didn’t want to leave him alone - hence calling miles.

I'm not a fan of Helen but I think a lot of people ascribe every action to her being nasty and I don’t see it that way

She wanted to give Jack's card to Rob because otherwise Jack might (with excellent reason) think that she didn't do it because she didn't want to do it for him. And that would sully her image in Jack's eyes. How she looks to her children does matter to her; not the actuality of being a wonderful mother, but being able to say that she always puts her children first (hint: she doesn't) and that they matter more to her than anything (hint: the evidence is against that as well).

Not merely nasty: selfish, self-serving, and nasty. Let's not forget the total inability she has had for years (decades) ever to see anything from any point of view other than her own, nor to take three steps out of her own way to do anyone else a favour of any kind unless there was something in it for her.

I think Helen is a stinker and has been since childhood, and that that was the irony of her becoming involved with Rob, also an egotistical manipulator.

I did wonder whether he had set up a nanny cam or similar in his bedroom, and advised Miles - maybe with the stated aim of keeping tabs on the care staff - so that if he managed to persuade Helen to smother him the evidence to convict her would be there. Moving close to Ambridge was such a weird decision, as was insisting on being baptised and then instantly dropping out of any attempt to conform to standard Christian practice.

its still not explained why the nurse seemed sure Miles would come and Rob seemed sure he wouldn't, it feels as if he somehow engineered the time alone with Helen but I can't quite figure how he would do it- although a hidden camera that Miles had access to would make it possible, if Miles colluded. I know that sounds crazy but abusive men will stop at nothing.

I think someone has already asked, why didn’t she just pop the blasted card in the post? Next day delivery if concerned it wouldn’t get there in time.

There was no need to go back to the flat to hand it to him. Just as there was no need to meet him in a café, go to A&E with him after his collapse or attend his follow up appointments.

It's very difficult to imagine an abuser being out of your life and you know that he'd still be in your head anyway.

As he was when he was in the States. She didn't forget he existed.

It made for a good story!

Was she meant to be a nurse? I thought at first she was, then wondered whether she was a carer - on a tight time schedule.

If she was a nurse, I don't think she'd have left without arranging cover if Rob was showing signs of imminent death - mottling, 'pill rolling', 'death rattle' breathing. Obviously not even the most experienced nurse can always predict the likely time of death with accuracy, but there is a suite of signs that show up in the last day or two in most cases.

If death was imminent then why would he ask Helen to kill him?

Helen should not be allowed to have the same ring tone as I do. It has caused me confusion.

So what day was this supposed to be?
And I see they've done a swift explanation of the Adil's wife/fiance confusion.

Now, who will Azra be matched with?

He must have been wired up to a monitor to get that exact a time of death.

What was the excuse? I skipped through the adil bits. It’s like listening to paint dry and I’m not interested enough to listen again

there seemed a lot of talk without anything interesting being said. They could have fitted it into 5 mins

Although I hope she answered a few of the questions people had about why she stayed!!

so he survived 2 days after she left!

Maybe the carers had a cam on him so they could keep an eye out in case he needed them urgently? Or maybe someone with him checked, for the death certificate.

Isn’t time of death time that he was declared dead, not actual time of death (since that can’t be determined with accuracy after the event?

Well, maybe there was a doctor there. Who knows? (Who cares, really.)

That would make more sense, Mere.

I think that's Miles saying he was actually there, that's how he knows the time

To order her around for the last time. To implicate her in his death so she gets jail time. Again.

Actually @echt, thinking about it, it was probably so he could remain in control of his own life until its very end. Controlling her in order to achieve that was merely collateral damage.

Thereby avoiding further pain and more importantly, humiliation.

Or because he was in pain and frightened and wanted it to stop. And he thought that whilst a health professional couldn't and Miles wouldn't, since she hated him she probably would kill him for him.

Sorry I meant in that precise moment - his death was clearly not imminent. So I can understand why the carer was happy to leave without knowing for certain someone would be with him