Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

I can see where Helen's behaviour is coming from - the bowling was too much, she didn't want to be there and she got overwhelmed. I can absolutely understand that, if I feel I'm trapped somewhere and I start to feel panicky, I'm really snappy to other people (because I'm trying not to show there's a problem/draw attention to myself and I want them to leave me alone) and I start to mentally curl up into a ball. It's horrible. I recognised a lot of Helen's behaviours there.

And Lee just won't back off - like so many men, he thinks things need to be fixed by doing something. If Helen's overwhelmed, she wants space - physically and mentally - and he's constantly pushing into that space to jolly her along, cheer her up etc. No wonder she exploded, because he just can't or won't understand that the only thing you can do is leave someone alone to decompress.

And we still are not completely satisfied about Joy's daughter Rochelle (is she called?)

Is joy the one with the hot tub?

Joy constantly makes excuses for why Rochelle can't call or visit. We're not sure if Rochelle has intentionally gone NC and Joy is in denial about it. Or, as pp have said, whether she even exists. She told Tony that she had lied about Rochelle coming to visit because she wanted people to think that her family loved her, but actually she was very lonely.

There was a period when Joy asked Tony for help with fixing her car and Tom got suspicious that Joy had designs on Tony, this came to a head with a confrontation on Christmas Day. This was long before Mick was on the scene. Joy was mortified and ran off. Pat and her later became closer, Pat was even her wingman when she met Mick.

He’s karate. So I see him as lean and quick. Karate is about quickness and clever application of the force of the whole body, rather than strength.

He may be an irritating tit (I don’t think he is) but he is the man Helen chose, and he hasn’t changed for the worse, so she is treating him very unfairly. Particularly in nit being prepared to work with him to improve things. Slinging someone out with no notice is for when you’ve found an alien pair of knickers in your bed

Lee annoys me because he's just whiny and eager to please in a kind of childlike way. He should be a hunk given his job etc but his personality is the opposite, he just comes across as a bit helpless and milquetoast. I am sorry for him and think he's had a raw deal but he just isn't right for Helen. He is good for the boys though - but Helen needs some one kind of ... less reasonable, like she is! That's partly why the Helen and Rob story worked. She was really attracted to him and it really was a love story for her, which is how she got so horribly enmeshed. She needs someone with Rob-like force of character but in a positive way.

I agree @MereDintofPandiculation

I've lived with my husband for a similar amount of time and there's absolutely no way I'd decide that I was fed up with him and expect him to just bugger off pronto.

On the subject of Helen, I had forgotten that Lee, as well as Rob, was in a relationship when she first set her cap at him. He dumped the previous girlfriend for her.

I don't think any of her previous relationships were with married/partnered men? Leon was single, but also made it clear he didn't actually want a relationship at all, he just wanted the sex. Greg was long divorced. Has she been with anyone else?

Joy ❤️

Id like to know for sure about her backstory. I’m in the Witness Protection camp.

I'm inclined to agree with you...

But for the witness protection thing to be true, Joy would have had to made up the fact that her family can't be bothered to stay in contact, or have actively decided not to. If you had to reinvent yourself, why would you make such a depressing back story?!

So she can talk about her family whilst knowing they will never be able to visit?

Helen really does have some awfully bad luck, doesn’t she? She’s so unlikeable (a testimony to the writing perhaps) that I think she would struggle in real life to have any friends outside the family, she’s an energy sucker of the first order.

half of me hopes you're right, because it will make Lee happy (no accounting for tastes). Half of me says Lee could do much better (although I don't want to lose him from the programme).

Joy is an unsatisfactory character because we don't really know her hinterland. She is a useful device - sowing the seeds of jealousy between Pat and Tony, rescuing Ben from his mental health crisis, providing comedy light relief (depending on your perspective) with her constant twittering and wittering, but - like Justin - she's a shapeshifter depending on the requirements of the plot. Perhaps she will be brought in to help Helen see sense - once upon a time Peggy would have fulfilled that role, but she is now silenced which is understandable because we know the actress is very old, but slightly unrealistic in view of her interfering nature and general matriarch role before she disappeared.

Had the terrible thought - would Lee and Kirsty be better suited? I doubt it due to him not being outdoorsy but she's quite into fitness and things isn't she.

I'd quite like to hear Kirsty choosing to champion herself over Helen for a change but realistically it'd all be messy and not very nice

@WitcheryDivine that scenario would be delicious!
Is Lee not outdoorsy though? He instigated The Hike. He's sporty. Usually that goes with being outdoorsy.
I'd LOVE a Lee / Kirsty story line. Helen would see it such a betrayal by Kirsty

Ohhhhh @WitcheryDivine that's evil genius level, right there. I am HERE for that SL!

He has maybe been won round to a bit of outdoorsy-ness by years of being with Helen. But early on their incompatibility was highlighted when he only had bright white trainers to wear for a country walk. He is sporty & fit, but not a country lad. Apart from the karate I can imagine him being into weights & the gym, not big team sports, club bike rides, or wild swimming. But IMO he would take to Kirsty's hobbies more naturally than to Helen's.

Hahaha oh thank you for sharing the intrigue at this idea - it was the trainers think I was thinking of @Fink but good point about the hike @faffadoodledo

If it worked out of course Kirsty would want her house back...

What ARE Helen's hobbies? I can't think of any apart from offloading to her friends. But then I can't really remember her in a pre-Henry era.

Poor Eddie …

Will was not at all encouraging when his soon to be homeless dad was dropping hints about the imminent need for a welcoming roof to shelter under.

Yes, I know. I don't think what I wrote suggested that the word somehow ceased to be an offensive slur because the word gay came into use as a non-offensive unslur (and was immediately taken over by homophobes as an insult), did it?

Some, not all, gay men have chosen to "reclaim" queer in the same way that black men will use the n-word, so offensive from a white person, among themselves; I don't think that negates how it was used before. It was one of the milder slurs, but that still didn't make it other than a slur at the time.

I think it's quite normal for a middle aged person not to have a definable set of hobbies. Although having them is also normal. It's just there's not the same expectation as with younger people that there will be some activity that they're really into. Just generally socialising seems to be acceptable.

She uses exercise as a form of control over her mental health. So I'm not sure I'd call it a hobby as such, but she spends time running and swimming. She could get back into riding (presuming she now knows better how to care for a horse!).

She claimed to be doing jewellery making, but it was a cover for getting childcare while she met Rob. I could actually see her getting into something a bit crafty, if she would try it.

She drinks wine and watches films. It might be stretching things to consider those a hobby.

I couldn't understand what Will was intending to say when he wanted to go and speak to Oliver. Was he going to insist that he couldn't possibly ever sell Grange Farm, regardless of whether he needed the money or not? What could he say that Oliver didn't already know?