Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

I shall say this very quietly ..... my first thoughts are that they will be back together by Christmas - Rob will have died and Lee with dogged persistence will win her back, cue engagement s as bd wedding by Easter ....

Helen went from being all over the place regarding Rob (as you’d expect) to suddenly controlling her eating, and being really blasé about everything being OK. So everyone else is getting upset about things, and she is suddenly completely as cool as a cucumber and saying they just shouldn’t let him get to them. It seems like it’s a form of control and denial. I wonder whether being in a relationship with Lee impacts her ability to control her situation entirely and so she’s cutting him out as another form of control.

And thank you for another great thread @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g !

That sounds very plausible. But in fairness, she’s also cutting him out because he’s an irritating little tit. Even I can’t really blame her for that.* *Being Helen, though, she’s doing it in a particularly horrible way.
Still, if he packs up and gets gone smartish Lee probably won’t be needing a colostomy bag. So there is that.

He is really irritating. I would have been done at the point where I realised he collected action figures. I’m just sorry we had to go through the whole beginning ‘ohhh Leeeee’ breathless stage.

I wish they were using Joy a bit in this stage, though, she’d be brilliant about Rob, and beside herself about Lee. I didn’t think I would when she first appeared, but Joy is one of my favourites and she’s hardly ever in it.

We need a ‘oh Helen Pet, are you sure you’re not just having a reaction to that awful Rob creature? Are you thinking of those lovely boys of yours?’

I don't buy that he's irritating. On what basis?

This ^

There are still a lot of gay men who view "queer" as an extremely offensive slur. Regardless of what some people might think.

I wasn’t a listener at the time that Ian and Adam got together. It’s interesting, because without that background, I would have guessed that Ian would be the less repressed one - and more happy to hold hands in public / be emotionally demonstrative. So it’s interesting to me that it’s Adam, I think I just made the incorrect assumption there.

I think it’s that he’s more just ‘safe’ and ‘nice’ and that was probably appealing after all the drama. But now being in any form of partnership means Helen can’t control absolutely everything about her life. It is being portrayed as her most massively having the ick though, so who knows 😂

Also the whole AIDS epidemic framed as gay plague would have been across Ian's formative years. That was terrifying in all sorts of ways and fanned homophobic flames. That's left its mark on lots of men of that age.

if Ian grew up in Belfast he would probably have had a massively different experience of any kind of predjudice than people in, say, Brighton or London. (there was a while in the late 80s early 90s when i lived in Düsseldorf and through an Irish friend met lots more Irish people. Mostly men. Mostly gay. Because they all felt they couldn't live in Ireland - Republic not north - as a gay man. They had some terrible anecdotes.

Lee. Meh. If Helen has the ick he must go. But he seems perfectly lovely to me.

Is Lee supposed to be a bit of a hunk?

Poor Lee.

I thought that Ian and Adam scene was well done. Adam had a certain amount of prejudice to deal with when he first came out, notably from Sid, the landlord at The Bull. Brian was not delighted, to the extent of refusing to go to their wedding and only changing his mind at the last minute. IIRC he met Ian's Dad and they shared their bewilderment and unease but seemed to come to some sort of acceptance of the situation. It's sadly entirely believable to me that Ian in NI was in a really hostile environment for gay men. Adam had the enormous advantage of having immediate and total acceptance from Jennifer and all his sisters, and the extended family mostly also took it in their stride. In fact, most of Ambridge has, which is possibly not entirely realistic, but has warmed my heart.

Totally agree @OverArmour I'm really fond of Joy now, having found her very annoying initially.

Has Ian never shared any of that with Adam before? The scene seemed a bit odd given how long they have been together. Adam sounded as if he hasn’t heard any of that while Ian poured out his heart but may be he just wasn’t listening during the early days as he’s so self-absorbed.

They are not so old that they belong to the stiff-upper-lip generation so I find it hard to believe Ian’s never covered this ground before. May be it was more for our benefit.

Maybe Lee could move in with Joy?

I’m really interested in where Emma’s static is going to end up when they leave Grange Farm. Hopefully Eddie and Clarrie will have to move out of Ambridge entirely.

God. I haven't thought of Joy for ages. She's lovely.

Thinking of NI and gayness made me laugh about this:

I’ve not heard much of Joy but she sounded like a plot device on the Ben story rather than her own character. What has her story arc been?

The mildest of many words that homophobes could choose if they wanted to insult.

There were also euphemisms which revealed the underlying sentiments. I was offered a man to fill a vacant post in my team - the recruitment papers described him as “flamboyant”. Late 80’s.

It’s hard to imagine now. I remember reading in the local paper about a man convicted of “loitering” around the mens toilets. Didn’t understand it at the the time. A bit later I became aware of bans on homosexuals in various posts “because they were vulnerable to blackmail”. It took a very long time for removal of illegality to morph into acceptance (we’re not completely there yet).

I liked the Adam and Iain scene as well, I guess that's why we've had to put up with Pip enthusing - so we can show the contrast with A & I's experience. I dunno if it's so unbelievable that Ian wouldn't have shared an incident which clearly still brings him pain and hurt from his teenage years. Sometimes these things are just well buried, sometimes you worry that people (even your partner) will judge you.

When i think back to my days in the army when you'd be given a dishonourable discharge for going against Queen's Regs for being gay or lesbian - it seems like a whole other world.

A bit frustrating, tbh. Asking will have chapter and verse, but as far as I can recall Joy just suddenly appeared in Ambridge. She comes from the North-East and the reason for her move to a place a long way from home, where she has no friends, family or other ties, has never been explained. Many of us have wondered if she's in Witness Protection. She claims to have a daughter called Rochelle who has children and may be a single mother. No idea who Rochelle's dad might have been. Rochelle has a busy, possibly high-flying job. She never comes to visit her mum. We've therefore also wondered if she actually exists.

Joy is now in a relationship with a man called Mick, who she met at a music festival. He seems nice enough. They don't live together. She lives in the house next to Helen and Lee.

I think Joy is great and I wish we heard a lot more of her.