Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

So she pays less than she earns but tax probably wipes that out

I don’t understand will - that money would have been useful

I thought Kirsty had sold the house to Helen, my memory is that she got 100% of the house from Philip.

I'm sure she's renting the house to Helen. It makes no sense as the land the Beechwood estate was built on was sold by the Bridge Farm Archers, so they could easily have bought one of the houses if that's what they wanted to do, or they could have built houses on other land, but both Helen and Tom are renting.

I'm moderately sure Kirsty and Philip divorced quite a while ago.

I opened this thread to make the same comment re. the school calling Helen in the middle of the day because Jack was ‘withdrawn’ and wouldn’t join in. Bizarre really. It would make sense if they took her aside at pick up.

My children’s school only call me if they’ve had an accident involving a clash of heads or they feel sick and have visited the school nurse. Even then I’ve never been asked to actually pick them up, it’s just to let me know.

the 2 Helen conversations this week have not been well written imo - the Helen side is true to form but the other side is filler so she can say her lines.

I beg to disagree @Bruisername It didn't sound like filler to me.
My opinion is based on long long years of living, of overhearing and taking part in many many many conversations, and even a bit of academic study, involving the recording and transcriptions of actual conversations, which is trickier to do than one might imagine, and requires plenty of

I've had nearly 68 years of listening to and taking part in conversations and it didn't sound natural to me.

Yes, I would say the same. Over 40 years of listening to and partaking in conversations and these ones definitely clanged! I think it goes to show just how much skill is involved in scripting “natural conversations” and perhaps I have taken that for granted in the past.

Z

(Sorry for the stray Z there)

“I don’t know what to do.”
”I think you should do A.”
”BUT WHAT SHOULD I DO? What do you think?”
”…Still A.”
”Oh come on. No one will tell me. Lee and I broke up because of this. What do you think?”
”…still….A…?”

Good Lord, Helen. It was quite bizarre to listen to.

How strange that such similar experiences have led to such a difference in perception of authenticity. It must be me then.

Have there been two references to stinking liquid in bowsers that Eddie has not wanted disposing of now? Or am I imagining that?

I've always thought of the Grundy cider as meriting that description ...

Ha yes indeed.

If the land sale falls through because of something Eddie has done then surely Oliver will be too furious to let them stay?

you're right - once when Ed (or was it George?) and Eddie were looking through the things in the barn and again with George spraying it around all over the place

The trouble is that Oliver has occasional moments of being 'furious' and then all seems forgiven. The incident with the bench was the worst thing but he didn’t vow never to speak to George or Brad again. In fact didn't he almost immediately back down? Devious George even talked him into letting him repair the bench, didn’t he…

He's too hopelessly nice for his own good.

That’s true - but there must come a point where he just can’t take it anymore!

I see Graham Harvey has a book out with a supporting article in the mail

I wish he’d reach that point, Bruisername!

Devious George even talked him into letting him repair the bench, didn’t he…

Yes, and be paid for it!!

Though I shudder at the judgment underpinning it, the Victorian approach to poverty seems relevant here. Jazzer and Tracey as the deserving poor (hardworking and always trying to improve their lot but still poor) while the undeserving (feckless and indolent) are the Grundies. In fact, in this case, indolence pays off as they get to live at Grange Farm while T and J cram into a council house rented by Bert but hopefully that will change.

The theory doesn’t work fully as obviously Clarrie and Emma don’t fit the undeserving category but it’s an interesting idea worth exploring.

Eddie has had ample opportunity to turn things around for himself but he consistently tries to take shortcuts and ends up screwing himself over. He is the master of his own misfortune and clarrie is his enabler at her own expense

eg the fireworks - I’m sure he made a nice little bit of extra profit there but he squandered any goodwill he had with Kenton

Nicely summed up.

(New thread imminent. Possibly this evening?)

The theory doesn’t work fully as obviously Clarrie and Emma don’t fit the undeserving category but it’s an interesting idea worth exploring.

But I think it is a reality (and not just a Victorian one) that women often have to bear the brunt of holding together poorer households, being the responsible party and “managing” men’s behaviour - especially where there are children as the woman is more likely to prioritise them and their needs. Maybe sexist but true. At the posh end of the scale, Jennifer did the same with Brian but in an emotional context.

I agree the Grundies are used as comedy fodder and it can be very cheesy and classist - but the main difference between Tracy and Clarrie or Emma is the level of responsibility and law-abiding-ness of the men they are tied to.