Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

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Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

Helen has a very odd way of discussing.

did they really need Helen to explain it was a letter? Did we need them to read it out? could Helen not suggest that Jack write to Rob instead of meeting him?

Jack is too late - Rob isn’t Rob anymore - it would be quite frightening for a child

Well yes, but when you rent you always know that there's at least an element of insecurity. Farming’s a bit different, isn’t it? People rent the same farm (and farmhouse) for generation after generation.

At least Kirsty told Helen she was out of order with her "you don't have kids" comment

But I found much of that discussion padding. What happened to Friday being when the exciting cliff hangers happened??

Usually under an assured tenancy though? Which the Grundies lost through fecklessness, I gather from this thread.

This! I really couldn't work out why Helen was so aggressively demanding Kirsty's view when she so obviously wasn't going to accept hearing a view that didn't agree with hers.

Because Helen wanted Kirsty to agree with her.
Then she got cross and pressed the childfree button. But she didn't really mean to, and did her best to backtrack.
I've had lots of conversations a bit like this in my longish life.

Hasn’t Helen always done exactly what Helen wants, regardless?

In her mind this conversation will have ended with Kirsty telling her to go for it so when it all goes wrong it will be her fault

If I was Kirsty I don't think I would have stayed there being shouted at and told I didn't understand anything. Helen's mind was made up there was no point in discussing it.

I also wondered how a 7yo managed to write such a lengthy letter in class

is Henry also a Villa fan?

the 2 Helen conversations this week have not been well written imo - the Helen side is true to form but the other side is filler so she can say her lines.

it started Dear Rob and Kirsty needed to be convinced it was a letter. Really odd.

it was nice to hear Kirsty but I hope she isn’t just going to appear as Helen’s support human

also, if Helen let’s Jack see Rob, doesn’t that confuse the situation for the Alan haters? Would be even better if she asked Alan to chaperone!!

If I was Kirsty I wouldn't want a friend like Helen. It'd be exhausting And one way.

And 'a proper Grundy'. Great. What an accolade!

No wonder Kirsty takes refuge in cheese. It’s probably the only thing that makes meetings with Helen bearable…It sounded as if she was just eating it straight off the board as no cracker sound effects.

What school calls a parent to collect a child who is ill, but when they get to the school they are told "oh actually it was just that he's withdrawn and not engaging in class". Was the letter handed over then? Was it written in a lesson? It would take 20 mins at least for a 7 year old to do that extended writing, which means a very poor teacher who didn't notice, didn't walk around the class observing the task and supporting the children.

The writing is really bad this week. Helen and Kirsty reading Jack’s letter was ridiculous. Kirsty isn’t a dimwit who needed persuading what a letter is. The airtime didn’t need Kirsty to read it aloud after Helen had already read it out. Rubbish.

also, that conversation just wasn’t believable in the slightest. As PP said above, lots of it was padding. And they just weren’t talking like regular people talk. Jarring with those two in particular as they are very well developed characters played by talented actors so you really notice when the script is poor. It’s like whoever wrote it has never observed two women friends talking before and assumes they just shriek dramatic lines at each other in an ever escalating fashion.

Brand new writer this week. It really shouldn't be so easy to spot that. I don't blame him. New writers should be getting a lot of help and input from the Editor and the rest of the production team to get the characterisation right. I don't think they managed that.

When Helen said "I thought it would just all blow over"... I can't work out if she meant with Rob, or Lee's departure? At 7, Jack won't have that many memories of life before Lee being around, he was his stepdad for years, now Lee's gone pretty much overnight, and Helen imagines it might all just 'blow over'? Even if she was talking about Robs return, how could that possibly 'just blow over'?!
And then "I thought it was just Jack digging his heels in and being stubborn". What is she like?!
Why on earth is no one suggesting that Helen and her children engage in regular, meaningful family therapy to deal with everything? Surely the headteacher would be aware of Rob and Helen's imprisonment, and that Helen and Lee have just split, and signpost them to some play therapy or something?!
Unless Helen hasn't even told school about Lee leaving, which would be in character I suppose.

There seem to have been lots of conversations recently where characters discuss stuff that we already know about. Pointless filling.

Oh poor Kirsty. How could you say that to someone who had had a stillbirth? Viciously thoughtless from Helen.

And the pathetic apology didn't sound particularly heartfelt either.

Helen was doing that AIBU thing where 100% say the OP is BU but they keep insisting they know they're right. Helen only ever wants validation of what she says.
As I've said elsewhere, if i were Kirsty after the "no kids" jibe i'd have punched her in the throat (maybe) and left telling her to have a nice life and to come back to me when she can hold a normal conversation and listen.

But i agree that Jack should see Rob. With someone who isn't Helen, Pat or Tony present. Maybe Alan or Natasha?

"a real Grundy" - urgh. But Eddie is VERY relaxed about the whole land sale thing. What is he up to?

@Brefugee I had the same thought on Eddie. Is he making a fuss when he doesn't need the land at all looking for some kind of compo from Oliver? Obviously in real life he can take a hike but somehow Oliver is some kind of purchaser.

The more I think about it, the more indignant I am on Kirsty’s behalf re Helen's 'you haven’t got children' jibe. She really is a horror. And she’s living in Kirsty's house too!

(What is it in Ambridge with people who own houses and let other people live in them, btw? Kirsty rents to Helen - I do hope she charges her a proper rent - Oliver and the Grundys we know only too well; Jill and Carol Tregorran, assuming she still exists. I suppose Shula can be forgiven as she doesn’t live in the village any more, but the rest do).

Where does Kirsty live?

With Roy

You think she'd want to sell. Is Kirsty still married to Philip or did she get the house in the divorce settlement? I supose if they are still married she would need Philip's consent to sell.