Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

The Grundys really do get on my nerves at times. Wiwwyam has grown on me recently and I have some sympathy for Clarrie but Eddie and, latterly, Joe’s wheeler dealing just grates. And of course, when it all goes wrong it’s never their fault, is it? No, it’s everyone else being down on the Grundys. Nowt to do with them bringing their misfortune on themselves.

As for all this “Grange Farm being home”, they were only ever tenant farmers. The clue is in the name…

<steps off soap box>

Even their high horses probably belong to Oliver

An excellent summary of the Grundy/Grange Farm/Oliver history @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime. Their sense of entitlement is breathtaking - they really do believe that the fact that there have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm Grundys at Grange Farm trumps everything. It has never occurred to them to make any other arrangement or wonder what might happen when Oliver eventually came to his senses and wanted his land/house back. They are utterly dependent on Oliver’s good will.

I'm no farmer but is there really a huge difference to whether 40 acres can sustain a load of Texels compared to 50 acres?
I didn't think Ed had that many? It doesn't seem to actually be financially viable anyway.
They were both awful to Oliver, so lacking in any self awareness! I'm glad Oliver was slightly stern with them, rather than just taking it.
As for Jazzer... Please please let this be a nice story where we can follow him as he develops the skills and knowledge to be an excellent manager...

I’m still a bit surprised that Hannah is preparing to jack in her job after being evicted by George and William and yet is being so cheery and sanguine about it. Is the Grange Farm eviction a case of karma being visited on the Grundys as a whole for George’s bit of nastiness?

Hannah is putting on a brave face. She is a realist.
Karma doesn't come into it. It's an everyday story of countryfolk once more

I'm no farmer but is there really a huge difference to whether 40 acres can sustain a load of Texels compared to 50 acres?

It would depend how many there are and it may be that a certain number are needed to be viable. Too many animals on grazing land can mean there isn’t enough grass to sustain them, especially in poor weather. The land then gets poached then doesn’t recover well enough in good weather, it becomes a vicious cycle.

@PuppyPerson , presumably it would sustain 80%-ish of what he has now.
How many sheep will depend on factors like breed, how many lambs they'll have, quality of grazing. With texels/texcel crosses you'd not want many ewes and lambs per acre.
The best land is probably the land Oliver will sell.

We know that at the moment Ed has thirty ewes and fifty-two lambs on the fifty acres he rents cheap from Oliver, because that is what he said tonight. I assume those must be last year's lambs, since it is now November and surely the ewes wouldn't all have lambed this early in the winter, so he needs to sell the lambs before the next lot is born after Christmas anyway. Claiming that he'll have to downsize isn't accurate: what he will have to do is keep his flock within bounds.

If he got rid of the lambs in a reasonable way, those ewes would have an acre of pasture each even with ten acres being sold off.

How much is it that Oliver has to raise? It strikes me that William is sitting on quite a valuable asset ...

Do you mean No 1 The Green (or whatever its called)?

How would that work?

The whole Grundy thing is annoying, there are real issues with affordable rural housing and poor treatment of tenant famers and tied agricultural workers. That could be explored but instead we get a load of comedy rude mechanicals freeloading in the good will of their betters.

My family are tenant farmers, my dad farms the same place that my grandad did and it was my childhood home (and oh for a landlord like Oliver, my dad's landlords are cunts). Even though you don't own it, it is home and a wrench to leave (Well not me, I left at 18 and moved to London as I could see staying there would bring nothing but a hard scrabble life and moaning about second homers and rural relocaters pricing me out of the village)

I was surprised by the scale of Ed’s flock. I thought he only dabbled and had a handful of Texans for show and stud purposes. He clearly has never wondered what might happen when the gravy train comes to an end as he wouldn’t have expanded to this degree without some sort of back up plan. I really hope Oliver doesn’t capitulate. Even if he manages to find the necessary cash down the back of a sofa I hope he moves the Grundies on. They are utterly deluded the way they speak as if staying at Grange Farm is their birthright.

Aside of Grey Gables, Oliver has nothing to keep him in Ambridge at this stage. Maybe he should jack it all in, as Ed suggested, sell the farm and retire to Tuscany.

Anyone here wondering if the silent firework disaster was brought out just to show how careless and selfish Eddie really is ?

can’t the Grundeis move into Number 1? Very tight?

I really hope Oliver now sells everything- must admit that is not a forgiving thought… but there is no need for Oliver to listen to this bile - true colours are out

I really wanted Oliver to point out "if I had been paid market rent for MY land and house all these years maybe I wouldn't have to sell so much land" I'm assuming the Grange is a 5/6bed house (e&c, will,poppy, Oliver,&george haveing a room each) and I doubt they are paying anywhere near market for a house, fields, barn etc land to keep a mobile home etc in all that time ...

anyone want to do some sums to see roughly what Oliver could be charging?

Arf

Another one agreeing that the Grundy's entitlement is teeth gnashingly irritating 🤣 I was cheering Oliver on!

I expect it’s come in as part of the Archer’s public service storylines - educating the general public on the issues with noisy fireworks and that quiet ones are available

Clarrie is the one who is going to be absolutely pissed off the max with her family members and presumably have to make it up to Oliver with any number of big dinners.

Speaking of which I was outraged that Oliver chose to speak to Eddie and Ed about the plans, rather than including Clarrie. What the heck was the idea there? (Well drama presumably)

Actually I think Clarrie should move in with Will and leave the others to rot at Grange.

Sorry it's already been said but 'we Grundys have always managed....'?!!! Yeah right.
I really hope the scales have fallen fully from Oliver's eyes now

educating the general public on the issues with noisy fireworks and that quiet ones are available

Not that I want TA to educate us, thanks all the same - that’s no longer its remit - but that might have worked a bit better if they hadn’t had a character last night confidently stating ‘there is no such thing as silent fireworks’. But on the whole, I think it was just more ‘comedic potential they were unable to resist.
Those Grundys, eh? What are they like?

It's not the history I am so bothered about but how he evicts them all and sells off the whole lot. I was so irritated by their blethering on about 'how cruel he is' blah blah blah.

Me too, I thought Ed mostly did tractor driving etc and the Texels were few in number and mostly for showing and breeding. Hence my surprise at his outrage at only possibly having 40 acres at his disposal.
I guess the difference with the Grundy's is that they aren't tenant farmers but sort of think they are? My guess is with tenant farming there is a contract and both parties have some rights? But The Grundy's are essentially 'normal' tenants and if we presume correctly are not paying anything close to market price, have a family in a caravan on site too, and Eddie is filling 'his' barn up with who knows what crap.
Actually I've just realised the comparison with Stella and her saying to Hannah that she'd need to check with Brookfield to ask about the room at the bungalow - is this the SWs showing us the difference between a respectful conscientious tenant and... The Grundy's, who are neither of those things.

Also, with Will, Poppy and George gone, the house is now just Eddie and Clarrie, and Oliver? With Ed and Emma in the caravan? That's a big house with not many people in it...
I do feel for Oliver tbh, this is all so much to deal with. I wonder if he ever regrets not selling it all or at least not being so involved with it all. I imagine him as in his 70s at least?