Archers thread #156: Fireworks in Ambridge! Helen gave Lee a rocket, but Grey Gables is a damp squib. Is the writing on the (church) wall?Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're irresistibly attracted to George Grundy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @OverArmour for the title suggestion, which I have tweaked a bit. I was strongly tempted by Less GGP (Grey Gables Peril) More GPP (Guinea Pig Plot), which was a plaintive cry from @PuppyPerson some days ago, but if Poppy has found new homes for the baby guinea pigs that may be the last we hear of them for some time, sadly.

Surely in the life of the next thread we must hear more from or of Rob, or Ron as some on this thread prefer to call him? <taps foot> Will Kirsty snap and tell Helen a few home truths? Will Pat's shotgun finally be brought into play? We can only hope ...

Also, will we ever find out who owns the other 60% of Grey Gables? Why is Adil AWOL (to use the other bit of OverArmour's title idea!)? Why aren't we hearing from Roy? Will GG ever re-open and will Emma get her Big Chance at last?

So many questions! Over to you.

Ah, but Lily can do no wrong in Elizabeth's eyes. If it had been Freddie who at the age of eighteen had started to have an affair with a woman "old enough to be his father" and "twice his age", Elizabeth would have been horrified and very probably thrown him out, rather than welcoming his much-older lover into the family house and finding a job for her in the family business.

But I'm a bit worried we're being asked to forgive Rob.

I don’t see it as being asked to forgive him, more understand that it’s more nuanced than “evil Rob getting his comeuppance”.

I don't think Elizabeth cares that Freddy is the heir, not Lily, but I do think she is bitterly resentful that Freddy is the heir, not her. A lot of her belittling and diminishing of Freddy has been to keep her own position secure. Any sign of Lily trying to step in would get cut down pdq.

But I feel that we as a society have accepted that a relationship between a sixth former and teacher is not ok and there seemed to be no concern around that. And I felt there was almost blame on Lily for being the seductress and to g him from his family. Her mother supporting the relationship was a negative parenting moment

That’s a very interesting g point. She does infantilise him and suppose that is part of keeping her position.

her response to him not being able to takeover at the moment should have been to support development of skills to help him with his future role - not see him off the the abattoir

I wonder how Russ is doing these days.

He’ll have found a new muse … At another sixth form college.

I’d completely forgotten that @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime re meeting before

I think Alan felt obliged to attend the baptism in case any of his parishioners, especially the Archers, turned up and kicked off. We don't know where it was. It wasn't specified that it was at St Stephen's, was it? Could easily have been Penny Hassett.

Re Lily/Freddie/Elizabeth - I don't think any of them have got over Nigel's death. I've no direct experience of anything similar, but I would imagine that's not at all uncommon. The twins were just 11, weren't they? Final year of primary school, gearing up for secondary transfer.

How very different life would have been for Freddie if Nigel had lived. He would have commiserated with him over struggling with academic work and confided that he was much the same, but unfortunately nowadays everybody has to try and get Maths and English GCSEs at a minimum. When it came to considering Freddie's education post-16, I think Nigel would have been far more sympathetic and realistic than Elizabeth and would have been looking at vocational options. Elizabeth on the other hand, after Nigel's death, took on the entire load of running LL and the entire load of bringing up twins who had just lost their Dad in the most traumatic circumstances. It's really no wonder she didn't cope and made a poor job of it. The Archers were sympathetic but clueless when it came to how to support her and the children.

I don’t think Lily is that bad and I certainly don’t think she’s vile or evil.

on a surely unrelated note: has there been any more airtime given to the witch trials?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
It wasn't specified that it was at St Stephen's, was it? Could easily have been Penny Hassett.

Since the baptism service was being conducted by the Reverend Nikita Berry, who is the vicar of Downham, it would be more usual for it to have been in her church rather than Alan's or one of Alan's spare ones.

Well, evil may be a bit strong but I can’t stand Lily. I normally don’t mind Josh as he shines a light on the Dopeys’ favouritism and terrible parenting, but he was just as annoying last night. Remind me when Denise turned up - surely she’s only been there a couple of nights. I appreciate what people are saying about uninvited guests but it’s not like she’s been there days and days let alone weeks! With Lily’s ‘casual’ racism towards Noluthando, the optics of Denise skivvying for her are harder to swallow, frankly!

Given her ethnicity, the optics could not be worse

Oh give over!

We only guessed at her ethnicity because Alistair mentioned liking her braids.

on a surely unrelated note: has there been any more airtime given to the witch trials?

A single comment by Denise and Alistair at the Grundy Halloween Trail, reading out what was on offer, mentioning the witch of Leader's Wood relating her history in gruesome detail or something - good old Clarrie! they added.

Well, that and Denise's actor being black, and Paul's actor being black, may have been taken as hints.

i think her being considered the house cleaner is more to do with her being an older woman and mum than the colour of her skin. Neither Josh or Lily would be used to a mum who tidies and cleans thoroughly?

Ooh! Definite BOOP for Harrison and the Brothers Grim tonight.

Pip, on the other hand …

Blimey. Yet more unexpected Rob stuff.

I didn't quite understand how, but am desperate gated that Miles is starting ng to see the truth re Helen.

Brothers Grim

*desperately gated = delighted!!

Pip behaving like a 5 year old as usual.

Just to say I have never heard a drama or soap opera get it right before tonight's episode. Never. I am moved to tears. Someone writing those scripts truly understands.

"the Brothers Grim" definitely needs to be in the Archers Nicknames!

“Rosie is a big fan of spaghetti” 😂😂😂

Well, in revelations that will surprise no one, Pip doesn't like the idea of My Girlfriend having a housemate, and doesn't have the maturity to talk about it openly so flounces off. And then is in a strop with her mother because it's homophobic to agree (with a gay woman) that a couple of months (tops!) is too soon to move a new partner into a household with a child.

Pip just gets worse and worse. Stella shouldn't be promising not to hurt her, she should be running for the hills, and definitely not Lakey Hill.