Archers thread #148: Unseasonably, it's panto time in Ambridge. He's behind you, Pat! BANG. Discuss the Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy isn't a psychopath, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will Rob return, or are they playing with us? Will Pat run amok with her shotgun and wipe out half the village? (We can but hope ...) Will Oliver come to his senses and turf the Grundy clan out of Grange Farm? So many questions, so much time.

Over to you!

Food/music not good/music

Oh and he blurted out that he loved Joy after a few months and she took a bit of a "too much too soon" fright but it's all good now. He asked someone's advice about it, can't remember whose.

I like Mick and I like Joy too. I do hope he doesn't turn into a wrong'un. She has had enough heartache real or imagined with Rochelle.

I still buy into the witness protection theory another poster so eloquently set out.

I had Tracey down as a brunette dark and wavy not bottle blonde.

I have always had Tracy down as having been blonde when she was younger, and because it has faded she is now adding highlights, possibly with Chelsea's help.

Chelsea is still the golden blonde that Tracy was in her youth.

I had Chelsea down as brunette too maybe like a young Stacey off EastEnders (don't watch nowadays)

Has Elizabeth not heard of radical innovations like insurance?

Thank you @ChocChipHandbag !

I’m afraid I couldn’t stop myself from coming on here to say how awful Elizabeth was last night. She spoke to Freddie as if he were a child she suspected of staining the carpet with Ribena. She is so high-handed with anything to do with the LL business. I do hope this is a slow-burn SL which will eventually see her homeless. Or does Nigel’s will allow her to stay at LL until she dies (or perhaps remarries)?

So bored of anything Eurovision-related - and it’s only Weds. How can the BBC think this wall-to-wall coverage on all outlets is what the people want?

It's been discussed a lot but Freddy is an adult and should really be front and centre of Lower Loxley now she really does treat him like a child .

Who do we think has been buggering up the paintings then? Neil in a fit of pique?

Lizzy and Freddie have a really toxic relationship and I’d like to see her temporarily run over by a bus so he can just have a crack at running things himself. 23 years old!!

but he hasn't shown any kind of maturity, i wouldn't want him in charge of things if i were a trustee.

Knee jerk about the painting on the say-so of one person. Unwilling, really, to get hands dirty and do meaningful "apprenticeships" in the house/business, and bloody whiny generally.

Elizabeth tries to be pragmatic, but her voice grates so i barely listen. Can imagine Freddy feels pretty much the same.

I can imagine that insurance could be prohibitively expensive for a stately home.
they will have liability insurance, but not contents.

Brefugee
Unwilling, really, to get hands dirty and do meaningful "apprenticeships" in the house/business

We have no evidence about that: Freddie has never been offered any meaningful "apprenticeship" other than being second-in-charge at the Orangery, which he stuck to for about twice as long as he was originally told he had to do it for. He has also been shown to have done the next make-work he was offered, volunteer-wrangling, and tried, with no training whatever, to obey Elizabeth's orders about that.

if he's going to take over, then he needs to be a bit pro-active in asking to get experience (he appears to be doing that now, though, so that's good)

It is daft that Elizabeth hasn't organised something structured for him, including college and so on. In her shoes I would have made sure he had enough work/experience/training to keep him going 60 hours a week after he got back home.

Compare to Chelsea who on hearing about the charging station immediately realised that it would mean jobs (even before she heard about a hairdresser).

tbh i think it's lazy writing 😁(and i don't like any of the Pargetters)

I have been forced to conclude that Elizabeth actively doesn't want Freddie to become either adult or competent; if he does, her own importance might be lessened. She has never done anything whatever to help him in any way; it was clear that forcing him to do inappropriate-for-him academic courses at college was of no use to him, but she was determined that he must do them and completely refused to listen to him when he tried to suggest other possibilities, and she has made absolutely no constructive suggestions of any kind for him since the A-levels he was so unfit for.

She is a terrible parent in this respect. And the way she talks to a man of twenty-three as if he were a thirteen-year-old is pretty demeaning to him, too.

I was transfixed by the mention of Edgar. That's Titcombe, isn't it? I had the impression he was an elderly man 30 years ago or whenever he was first mentioned. Perhaps he was a mere stripling back then and his marriage to Mrs Pugsley-as-was would therefore have been a cross-generational relationship. Is she still alive? I don't recall her being mentioned for a long, long time.

Edgar Titcombe (who had not yet developed the Edgar) was described as "long-established" and in charge of the grounds and garden of Lower Loxley Hall in 1994, so I would have thought he must then have been well over forty, possibly even over fifty. That would make him seventy or more now.

Thanks, Asking, that's what I thought I remembered (not that that's any guarantee of accuracy ...). I suppose there is therefore an outside possibility that Edgar Titcombe is still in his very late 60s. Not too many men of that age are fit enough to do a very physical job like Head Gardener of a stately home, surely? My grandfather was a gardener for a wealthy private family and was definitely retired by that age. Perhaps ET has several under-gardeners and spends most of his time sitting in his potting shed drinking tea and browsing through seed catalogues.

It is daft that Elizabeth hasn't organised something structured for him, including college and so on. In her shoes I would have made sure he had enough work/experience/training to keep him going 60 hours a week after he got back home.

Totally agree Brefugee. I also wonder (but am not old enough to remember) exactly what HER apprenticeship/qualifications for her current role are. What did she do to prepare herself except get hitched to the guy who owned it?

Seems a bit rich to expect The Heir (is he "The Heir" considering his dad is dead?) to qualify in some totally intangible way for a hereditary role when she didn't.

I'm not saying he seems wildly capable but honestly I doubt heirs ever have been. They have staff and presumably make their own mistakes. That's the joy of hereditary shit, the qualifying is done before you're even born.

She acquired some sort of marketing qualification, possibly by correspondence course (it was a long time ago). Otherwise learned on the job.

In real life someone of Freddie's background would be packed off to Cirencester study estate management or something similar.

We’ve thrashed out the issue of Freddie’s lack of suitable education / training so many times - it’s incomprehensible that the Archers creative team haven’t taken any notice.

And sad that he’ll generally be the least educated person in any room he walks into. Which is dangerous when there’ll be so many people looking to take advantage of him for the rest of his life …