Archers thread #146: They did fall apart. Can they put themselves together again? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to donate your time as a guide at Lower Loxley to save the Pargetters paying someone else a living wage, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @Impostersyndrome for the thread title suggestion Buses and trains are sorely lacking, canals might be nearby, but all roads lead to Ambridge, picking up on transport discussions in the last thread. In the end I didn't use it, having in mind the character limit. @TottersBlankly contributed an early draft title Wreathes, wrath, writhing (Jennifer, Lilian, Ruairi). Both good starting points for the new thread, which I hope will last till Jennifer's funeral, surely not too far off now. So, over to you - whither the Aldridges? Also, does anyone care if Lee goes to the US? Is anyone even slightly interested in the Brookfield B&B venture?

UIII, UIIIp1, UIIIp2. P stood for parallel. We weren't streamed.

That's good knob!!
I very much enjoyed that mis-hearing.

Paul's a keeper, ie he'll stay.

Josh sounded almost lovelorn at the thought of his departure?

Yes, he had the opportunities - Lily was working in the office and for the estate from early teens. Freddie could have been doing the same - he chose not to.

Lizzy had explained the process for objects of dubious history, a process implemented after advice from specialists - he just didn't want to listen. You can't teach and adult who refuses to listen.

Freddie's experience as a drug dealer was positively feather bedded. He had all the support of a well connected family, good representation, a handy family member and business owner to offer him convenient and respectable accommodation, a wealthy family friend and business owner offering him a job in an industry directly relevant to his future career when he came out.

If Freddy had been from Peckham his experience both before, during and after prison would have been very, very different. He has been staggeringly well protected and supported.

Yes the point of the rotations is that you need to learn the business and the customers. The gift shop presumably opens more than one day a week - they have talked about school visits as well as garden visits so it isn't just seasonal parents-with-children on wet days.

Plus the gift shop, like the restaurant is a business in its own right - customer management, stock management, ordering, pricing, marketing, online sales etc. All the elements are there to learn if Freddie didn't think it beneath him. This is common for grad recruits starting in a new business but not good enough for Freddie - he reminds me of some of the more entitled grads we get who think they are going to waltz in and speak to CEOs and then realise the "bag carrying" years are vital apprenticeship experiences.

It does seem insane that Lily won't take over LL. And yes re the GRA - when push came to shove the politicians knew exactly the difference between sex and gender.

LVI is a bit bewildering, what with meaning 56!

Thanks@NewBootsAndRanty - I listened back to it 5 times on my phone and got "ooh that's good knob" every time, and it didn't seem likely that he had combined his break time with getting into Josh's pants.

I think he was having one of those moments when actors remember to do their accent and went with "that's good'n'ot".

other than that I liked their exchange, sounded nice and normal.

I feel sorry for Clarrie, obviously when the tannoy(!) comes in Susan will spend the whole time narrating the yoghurt making process while Clarrie has to be the minion who simply gets on with it.

Honestly I missed the start of the chat about class names but am I the only one that had year 7 - year 11?

What happened to that particularly annoying LL Trustee (whose name I forget), who was in episodes for weeks and weeks (or maybe it just felt like it)? He was all over Freddie (and his attic(?) tour) like a rash and then disappeared.

I've missed tonnes of episodes, but have Freddie and Noluthandu ever had a conversation about her overdose?

PS my secondary school was especially weird in that it had no 1st year... just 2-5 and Lower and Upper 6th.

Not quite @GoldenCupidon, our school moved to the new numbering system while I was there. I was in form D so I went 1D, 2D, 9D, 10D, 11D. I’m sure officially we had years 12 and 13 but staff and pupils stuck with ‘lower and upper 6th’.

I remember being gutted that I wouldn’t be in ‘3D’, but then I was a bit of a maths geek.

Haha I can imagine! I remember being mightily peeved when my school brought in year numbers and after having been at nursery then school for at least 6 years I found myself in year 4. Felt properly shortchanged/like I'd been wasting my time

I did 🙋‍♀️

If we hand to moved I would've stayed at my school with lower and upper 6th though, as it was I went into year 12 & 13 for 6th form.

I'm obviously much older than you but mine was quite simple 1st year, 2nd year etc up to 6th Form and Upper 6th (rather than 7th form).

I definitely don't disagree that he needs to learn those things @C8H10N4O2
I just don't think he needs to only do that for half a year. He could also do a part time business studies/ marketing/ estate management course alongside, or continue with volunteer.

If he was at 6th form/ uni he's be doing a minimum of 3-4 courses/ modules at the same time. He could easily manage learning the gift shop ropes and another area of LL and/or training. I worked in a shop 2 afternoons and 1-2 weekend days in 6th form until the Spring Term where I left to focus on exams. Why was Freddie not working even a option?
Anyway they are where they are and it's largely the constantly sneering attitude towards every idea he has, that I dislike.

I think it's the same thing that annoys me with George, is that we're being set up with 'apple doesn't fall far from the tree' characters but with some gentle steering and exploring and nurturing of their talents they could be so much more. Perhaps not so useful for plots though.

Lily is obviously more deserving and has worked a lot harder for LL historically, and it would be lovely to see her rewarded. I think they'd make a great team (if that wasn't selling herself short.) They have such different skill sets, ideas/ spark/ vision and diligence/ admin/ book smarts.

I have to say when Freddie said something along the lines of "you two are obsessed with plaques/ notices" I howled. He totally should have listened to and understood the process they'd been through first, but I don't think he was wrong to question it. Had it gone far enough? It can't have been thorough as they missed this painting and Freddie hadn't noticed any difference in LL or heard of it at all. There was a book White Fragility that became very popular briefly, when the BLM came to the fore, but it was shortly after discredited in black centred groups as being a HR manual for sweeping over racism in the workplace. That was written by one of those specialists. Noli clearly wasn't blown away by acknowledgements of the past when she went round.

But fundamentally yes Freddie does act a lot faster than his brain and hasn't shown the motivation to support LL in his youth, compared with his swotty sister.

What was ridiculous was the way Freddy went into such a panic about it. It was all "We must DO something! I don't know what, but we must! NOW! And it's all my responsibility! Maybe I'll try running around in circles for a bit to show how seriously I'm taking this!!!" Once he'd stopped visitors seeing the thing, any urgency had disappeared. And yes, at that point he could have stopped to think that maybe other people's views were worth considering.

C8H10N4O2
Yes, he had the opportunities - Lily was working in the office and for the estate from early teens. Freddie could have been doing the same - he chose not to.

I find nothing remarkable in him choosing not to work in the same place as Lily, particularly since Freddie is the person she has been sniping at and belittling since they were about eight.

He preferred to work with the fruit-pickers – people about whom Lily thought it ok to tell damaging lies, and when pulled up by Phoebe because she had, wondered why Phoebe was so bothered since Lexi and Constantine were "only pickers".

Clarrie when angry is splendid. I particularly enjoyed “why don’t you come and make the yogurt while I faff around with labels?”

Our school just had Year 1 to Year 5.

I really enjoyed that too!

Freddie fundamentally isn't very bright. Nigel wasn't specially bright either as far as I recall. And Lizzy (and her siblings) despite some of them going to quite posh schools also don't seem to have showed much in the brains dept either, although she seems switched on now. So I'm not sure why his level of not-brightness is a problem - after all the British aristocracy has been contending with the problem of dim heirs from day one. It kind of comes with the territory (literally).

Freddie needs to sod off to "estate management school" get shit hot at it and come home and tell his mum and sister that he's very grateful but they're no longer required. That or resign the management to his sister and do a Prince Harry. Of course we know that like his dad he's destined to get together with someone more astute i.e. Chelsea.

He'd probably do better to get together with Brad.

That would be absolutely brilliant but I can't see Brad wanting it. My money is still on Chelsea.

Freddie has never shown any willingness to spend more time in education that was mandatory. I agree I am bemused that someone who has known since childhood they are destined to run an estate has not opted to do at least basic land management, hospitality or other training even if just at the lower level of NVQs. Freddie seems to think he doesn't need it.

Agree with you George - all the annoyances and cheating tendencies of Eddie without any of the positive characteristics.

Re White Fragility - it was written by a white academic and conveniently cashed in on the surge in critical theory in the US. She has done very nicely out of the unconscious bias training industry for other white people, much of which has subsequently been shown to have a net negative effect. She is also not a historian from memory.

Elizabeth talked about a team advising - I'd be very surprised if it was an entirely white team and devoid of historians in recent years. However Freddie didn't ask about the team and if they should double check he just had a tantrum about taking it down. It was a weird discussion tbh, all seemed abit constructed.

He didn't have to work in the same place as Lily - there is a whole building and estate and Freddie gave as good as he got in most of their arguments. As the heir to the LL throne he could have involved himself pretty much anywhere and chose not to.

Lily was a bit of a twattish teenager, so was Freddie - not much to choose between them at the mid teens age. Lily had a work ethic though - she worked in the business because she wanted to help Elizabeth, Freddie thought that fruit picking would be some easy money (and the complained a lot when finding otherwise).

Same, and they can get Brad to check their accountants aren't cooking the books.