Archers thread #145: The glue that held the Aldridges together is gone. Will they fall apart? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Lillian and I both made the glue observation, so I thought that would be as good a way as any to kick off this new thread. We raced through the last one, for obvious reasons. This one may last until the funeral. Will Tamsin Greig find time to attend? I do hope so.

The poem Jennifer quoted in her journal is here: www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43775/rabbi-ben-ezra It's doubtful whether the last of Jennifer's life was the best, but she had plenty to contend with all the way through.

Over to you!

Thanks @DadDadDad for the link to the first Archers thread. Interested to see hatred of Pip was there right at the beginning.

Well, I was right about Alice's badgering seeing off Ruairi, though I thought it would be after not before the funeral. I still think it was a terrible plot device though and not like Alice really, though hey, we need some future strife laid down.

Sorry if this has been asked/answered, but have Alice and Co shown Lilian Jenny’s journal? If not, why not?

I think not. In real life, I'd probably give her time to cool down. But obviously it won't have occurred to Alice to do it as she's far too busy driving off Ruairi. This, like everything else, will be Not Her Fault.

We’ve just been bereaved so let’s eat soup together and play a board game?!? What on earth is Alice thinking? Is she trying to position herself as the matriarch holding the family together now Jenny is no longer there? If so, it’s not really working…

Yes, somehow Kate has become more empathetic and emotionally intelligent than Alice this week!

No, not at all. Why would Lynda want to make things more difficult for Lilian? I was surprised that she didn’t immediately offer, and that Justin didn’t think to ask. I suspect that we will find it all happened off-air.

Also odd that James hadn’t already come to comfort his mother though. And don’t get me started on Debbie’s absence. I suppose that they think that it would be too artificial to say that Debbie was there and then have her silent in all the family scenes, but it’s pretty unlikely that she would not have dropped everything and rushed to Ambridge. They talked earlier as if it was a major logistical challenge for an adult with money and plenty of staff at the farm to fly to the UK from Hungary. To put it in perspective, I was in Hong Kong when I got the call to say my mother was dying and I was in the UK less than 18 hours later. I would have made the journey to support my brother even if it had been too late to be with my Mum at the end.

Going back to Lilian and the journal though- they all know that Lilian is struggling with Jenny’s decision to tell Tony and not her. It’s all documented from the horse’s mouth in the journal and the others feel better having read it. Why in earth keep that from her sister?

Agree that it seems to have taken far too long already to have shared the journal with Lilian.

Wildly unsurprised that James wouldn’t think to visit.

I don't quite get why posters always go on about Tamsin G being far too busy to make an occasional appearance on the Archers. Surely she could pop to Birmingham or record something in her shed.

Wasn't she on a few years back when Kate was hatching her plan for Spiritual Homes? Or was it when Home Farm was being sold?

One of you will know!

I wholeheartedly endorse the notion that storylines ought to be created purely on the basis that they piss off Helen (and Pip).

James is an odious creature and there’s no way he’d think to rush to his grief-stricken mother’s side. The reading of the will, mind - now that’s another matter.

I think Rauiri was spot on when he told Brain they should be ashamed the way they treated Jenny and also she wasnt a saint. I find it hard to believe they haven't shown Lilian the journal. The SW always make thier characters hold back saying stuff and Im left shouting at the radio/alexia/bbci player, Tell her/him !!! Its frustrating at times.

Also, for heaven's sake Alice put a cork in it.

It felt to me like Alice was suffering from I've-had-therapy-itis - she feels like she knows the way to help Ruairi because she knows what worked for her. And obviously it's not working. Will be interesting to see if/when he returns. Playing a board game was a weird idea, but I guess maybe they don't really know how to just hang out with Ruairi at the moment (even if he wanted to do so).

I was annoyed that he's apparently "spent loads of time" with Ben and we haven't heard any of it.

I was surprise too that Ruairi had spent a lot of time with Ben and we hadn't heard about it,we could have found exactly what Ruairi thought as he is or was very open with Ben.

I haven't listened to the last couple of episodes, but had to mention that "This would have the added benefit of annoying Helen" is my favourite comment on these threads for a long time.

If Tamsin G isn't available, couldn't Debbie just hang out with Peggy? That would be more realistic than a complete no-show. I wouldn't expect James to rush over - he's as self-centred as his dear old mum. The Cluedo scene was very odd (although a very accurate representation of how the game is played in this house with the detection cards covered in notes from games going back years!). I wondered if it was a clumsy a parallel with the debate about who was responsible for Jenny's death - Alice with the vodka bottle, Kate with her yurts and her refusal to move Spiritual Home, Brian with the poison chemicals (and his innumerable affairs) etc etc and grand dimensions of the Cluedo house a reminder of the lost splendour of the Home Farm kitchen. Ruairi tipping up the board seemed appropriate. I'm enjoying the writing so much more at the moment now the SW have a believable, but seismic event to rally the characters around.

I think Ruauri is still very young and going to be angry with himself for missing Christmas with Jenny. If the funeral is a month away there really isn’t any reason for a 20 year old to be knocking around Ambridge with nothing to do. I wouldn’t expect him to stay. In someways it’s weird just how young Alice seems to have had a mother in her late 70s (I’m at the Adam end of Jenny’s children’s age range), she seems very immature.

A month until the funeral! Weird - also reminding me of the time when Siobhán died IN IRELAND and the SWs kept her hanging around above ground for a more than a week.

It's going to be odd if cousin Shula doesn't come - I wonder did Judy Bennett leave them a recorded inset.

Wasn't she on a few years back when Kate was hatching her plan for Spiritual Homes?

Yes, she came home for a few days then. It was wonderful to hear the three sisters together - they truly sounded like a family. Think they went riding together? She boosted Kate’s confidence in her proposed business venture - and offered to invest in it. I don’t recall the specifics, whether loan or gift. I do still remember her elegant (as in light but not dismissive) tone of voice when they touched on the subject of having children and she said “That ship has sailed”.

It does seem unsatisfactory that she hasn’t reappeared - TG could send a few lines from anywhere. And the BBC could surely find the ££ to pay her, given what an asset she is to TA. Who knows?

Love the Cluedo analogy!

Didn’t Brian suggest Jenny was ‘too old’ when she wanted another child, essentially to bring them together after … some misdemeanour of his? Maybe the pressure to repair her parent’s marriage shaped Alice from her conception and has always made her feel slightly desperate - to herself, and us.

I don’t understand the delay either. I know there is a backlog in crematoriums at the moment, but I would imagine Jennifer will be buried in the Ambridge cemetery, by Alan, who doesn’t seem to be rushed off his feet. They have the death certificate so why wait a month?
Both my parents were buried within a week, in Scotland, like Ireland the tradition is that the sun shouldn’t set more than three times (twice?) between death and burial. We’re currently in a seven week wait for my MIL to be cremated, which to me feels like some sort of drawn out limbo.

Re Tamsin Greig, I think I’ve mentioned before that a friend of mine is a producer on Pobl y Cwm, the Welsh soap that Mali Harries (Natasha) appears in. He says the Archers producers are ‘a bloody nightmare’ as they expect Mali to be available whenever they want her her and for everyone to fit in around TA. So no, I don’t think it’s as simple as a busy actor just popping to Birmingham and recording a few lines.

Yes I agree with all this. November - Christmas is very short and very busy and not much time to get your head around such news.

It may well have been that come Spring she felt ready to tell more people but Spring didn't happen. Pat knows Tony is incapable of keeping anything from Lilian once she has sniffed out a secret - possibly thought it best to get it out there.

I don’t understand the delay either. I know there is a backlog in crematoriums at the moment, but I would imagine Jennifer will be buried in the Ambridge cemetery, by Alan, who doesn’t seem to be rushed off his feet. They have the death certificate so why wait a month?

I thought the opposite. I was just glad that the SWs had got something right for once. A month is quite normal these days, unfortunately. Dreadful but normal. I was quite surprised Adam got an appointment to register the death so quickly. It should be within five days of the death but getting an appointment is far from easy- unless a cancellation comes through or if the deceased is Muslim as that speeds it up too.