Archers thread #141: The nights are drawing in. Can we turn the clocks back to a time when The Archers was fun? Cackle or carp about The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Many thanks to @TottersBlankly and @GoldenCupidon for the title suggestions.

Too much to hope, I suppose, that by the time we get to the end of this thread Chelsea's pregnancy is a distant memory and the Horrobins can gear up for a cheap and cheerful Christmas. I really, really hope she doesn't change her mind about the termination. It's a horrible and unrealistic storyline, as most of us have agreed over the past few weeks, but now I just want it to end and be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of Lilian taking on the role of witch in the woods. Much more fun to listen to than Mia sabotaging the Hunt Ball, which is surely bound to go horribly wrong, or the odd wrangling over the stained glass window which we know Peggy won't be contributing to on air , given June Spencer's retirement.

Not a peep out of anybody in Ambridge about all the recent political shenanigans, but that's hardly surprising. Nobody fretting about fuel bills or rampant inflation either.

Also, where's Jenny? I hope Angela Piper's OK.

Over to you!

Also the Leonard and Jill thing really isn't working where he's responsible for communication with her and then reporting it back. It makes him sound like her son, vs partner, and really, what's the point? It might be worthwhile if she was coming back but as she isn't?

Er are you getting mixed up with Peggy who isn't coming back "in person"?

Oh god, yes I am. Even worse then. Why do it? Sounds like he's managing a quavery old person vs being in a relationship? It's weird.

I think she's entitled not to be happy about the fact that Ben basically threw her out without warning.

I think Beth's pretty amazing, especially considering the father and sister she's got!

I don’t mind her particularly, it’s just we’ve had non stop drama and they’ve only been together five minutes, I just don’t get the point of it.

That’s interesting, Fink, and you may be right,* *because I’m now hypersensitised to our Chels's catarrhal rattlings and hoickings, and it’s almost all I can hear when she speaks.

I don’t think she did it to start with, though. It’s developed over weeks and months.

Is it supposed to suggest she is constantly tearful due to her situation? If so it could clear up as she moves on with her life.

I don't hear the sniffs either

I’m sitting listening to the film and she just did it about 4 times in quick succession!

Me neither

Is it supposed to suggest she is constantly tearful due to her situation? If so it could clear up as she moves on with her life.

This was my interpretation too as it only seemed noticeable once this SL got going. Hopefully it will be quietly dropped- Chels doesn’t sound like any other character so no need to keep the sniffing to differentiate her from other young women. At one point, several young (ish) male characters sounded the same and it was impossible to tell who was who but they seem to have addressed that.

I agree with @OverArmour re Leonard and Jill. Sad to say it but it might be time for him to friend-zone her and find someone more his age.

Is there an age gap @Roysnewshirt ??

Do we know how old Leonard is? I haven't heard any clue about it, so I'd be interested to have the information. On the website he is said to be "in good shape for his age", which doesn't help, and always to wear a collar and tie because he wouldn't know what else to wear, which puts him in my father's generation to me; my brother, in his seventies, turned out when he retired to be capable of ditching his tie, whereas my father, who would now be over a hundred, wore a tie every day until he was taken in to hospital and died there.

My father, nearly 90, feels naked without a tie. I always imagined that Leonard was about the same age. But I was surprised to hear that he'd single-handedly decorated the Brookfield B&B bedroom – so perhaps he's in his 70s. But that would make him up to 20 years younger than Jill.

I thought he was in his eighties. Didn't he meet Jill because his late wife was in The Laurels? Jill met him while she was visiting Christine? So he's old enough to have had a wife in The Laurels. (Though his wife might have been older than him - he might have a thing for older women.)

While we don’t know exactly how old he is, the clues point to him being far younger than his gf. He is active enough to play cricket, paint and decorate, take Ben out for a pint and organise a family photoshoot. That’s not the behaviour of any of my family members or friends who have reached their 80s/90s. Surely he is late-70s, possibly 80 - or simply a medical miracle? When he speaks it sounds as if he is from a different generation to Jill.

All my relatives in their 70s are to be seen in jeans and a t-shirt around the home. My dad switched to that almost full-time when his work decided to get rid of the office building and have everyone wfh. He previously wore a suit and tie daily. My uncles in their 80s mostly wear open-neck shirts (usually checked), ties only for special occasions. I work in a church and very few people of any age wear a tie. Sunday best for men is a plain shirt and jacket (or national clothes appropriate to ethnicity). Even amongst the over 90s, I didn't see anyone with a tie this morning. My grandfathers, born before WW1, ditched the daily tie decades ago (both are dead now). I can only assume that either the people who wrote Leonard's bio were thinking of what old people were like 50 years ago and haven't met any recently, or they're trying to portray him as unusually old-fashioned and conservative, which doesn't really fit with how he's actually played & his lines. Next thing you know they'll be describing him as a dapper gent as though he's an Agatha Christie character!

My relatives also all do bits of DIY. My 80 year old and 74 year old uncles just put up and painted a garden fence last week. So I don't think it's out of the question that Leonard could decorate the room. That's nowhere near as bizarre as the wearing a tie every day is.

I'd say he's meant to be near Jill's age, no more than 5 years younger at an absolute maximum.

My Dad is 88. He wears a tie for church (Church of Scotland) and for funerals etc. Not for ordinary daily wear. Until his recent health problems, he was spending a day every week at the local charity where he was Chair and where he had been volunteering for over 20 years. He did a fair amount of work for them from home as well. He was active in the church and did his bit round the house and in the garden, but in shorter and shorter bursts. It's decades since he would have thought about trying to decorate a room, but to be fair that was never one of his strengths. The week before he had his first TIA he was up a ladder in the kitchen handing things down to my Mum (almost 90) to wash while he cleaned the tops of the kitchen cupboards. 😱One of the things Mum said to me when I was up in Scotland with her while he was in hospital was that she supposed the remaining cupboard tops wouldn't get cleaned now.

(I may say my cupboard tops have never been cleaned, and I don't think they ever will.)

But let’s not forget that Jill herself - before she disappeared from our ears - was the regular chief cook and bottle washer for a hungry family of adults. Constant casseroles and cakes, can’t remember the last time she had a holiday … I daresay some nonagenarians live similar lives, but it isn’t what we generally assume. Perhaps Leonard’s her male equivalent?

I don’t recall gaining the impression he was very much her junior when he was first introduced. But once again, I suspect it’s partly the result of multiple writers each painting a slightly different picture - we don’t get a properly cohesive impression.

(Slow typing - wasn’t directly responding to you, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g!)

I don’t recall the specifics but I have a vague impression that Leonard’s wife was not as old as her typical fellow resident - earlier onset dementia or something like that. I just vaguely recall a comment of Leonard’s to that effect, back when he was first being introduced. Perhaps in her 70s but not what I would call elderly.

My grandfather was still cycling and fishing in his mid eighties. My father was still going up a ladder to clear leaves from the gutter in his early 80s. Our church has lots of members active in their eighties and into their nineties. I could well believe that Leonard was, say, 82 - eight years younger than Jill.

"I think she's entitled not to be happy about the fact that Ben basically threw her out without warning."

@LaGioconda I definitely agree with that. It was more the way she openly resented being taking out for posh dinners and being gifted holidays I was commenting on. Even the way she accepted the ring from Gill her voice sounded tinged with sadness. Even though I think she's actually really sound, I think she's quite dramatic even about things that don't need to be a drama.

My farmer uncle was still working aged 89.