Archers thread #141: The nights are drawing in. Can we turn the clocks back to a time when The Archers was fun? Cackle or carp about The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you're hoping Ambridge has a pantomime again this year, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Many thanks to @TottersBlankly and @GoldenCupidon for the title suggestions.

Too much to hope, I suppose, that by the time we get to the end of this thread Chelsea's pregnancy is a distant memory and the Horrobins can gear up for a cheap and cheerful Christmas. I really, really hope she doesn't change her mind about the termination. It's a horrible and unrealistic storyline, as most of us have agreed over the past few weeks, but now I just want it to end and be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of Lilian taking on the role of witch in the woods. Much more fun to listen to than Mia sabotaging the Hunt Ball, which is surely bound to go horribly wrong, or the odd wrangling over the stained glass window which we know Peggy won't be contributing to on air , given June Spencer's retirement.

Not a peep out of anybody in Ambridge about all the recent political shenanigans, but that's hardly surprising. Nobody fretting about fuel bills or rampant inflation either.

Also, where's Jenny? I hope Angela Piper's OK.

Over to you!

I am assuming that in a few years Henry will go through a bad patch as his years of trauma catch up on him. Around y11/y12 massive MH crisis.

I suspect all sorts of horrors are lined up for Jack, too. At some point Knob will reappear and try to hijack him; also at some point heredity will come through and he'll start showing Knob-like tendencies. Or, even, worse, he'll meet Granny Ursula.

Changing to 1000 posts per page is the way to avoid that.

@FlosCampi am not sure what you mean by "visited on Chelsea, an Archer baby"?

I find Ben’s distress very hard to listen to. It really hurts, as if it were my own DS

I don't have a son but I also find it upsetting. I know so many decent, caring young men and the Ben actor is very good at conveying despair and, sadly, self loathing.

I thought it was all upsetting, except for the fact that thank goodness she actually went through with it. Although we didn't hear the nuts and bolts of the abortion it felt very much like an induced labour to me. I can imagine that being triggering for women who have had a TFMR or a missed miscarriage requiring induction or a stillbirth. I listen to the podcast but I wondered if there would be a helpline announcement afterwards.

@OverArmour there used to be a saying on here that TASWAMA (the archers scriptwriters are misogynist arseholes) - I think that might be what you're getting at?

A quick BOOP for David for being nice to Ben instead of cross with him as was obviously his inclination.

@JanglyBeads I mean that if I said pretty good-natured peasant girl comforts the son of the leading family, then through indecision haa an arbortion so late it's an induced labour, it's hard not to feel angry with the scriptwriters' decision to punish and possibly traumatise Chelsea as a character for having sex and for moving outside her station in life.

Goodness, I got a couple of days behind and there were a lot of pages to catch up on!

I genuinely think back on the Xmas pantomimes with fondness, but I’m sad as there seems little time to arrange one this year, now. I’m sure Lynda would take on the mantle despite her apparent retirement from it.

I’d love to hear more about the buffalo, too. Adil’s suggestion which Helen was going to “look into”.

I’m with (I think) the majority in that I hated this SL. I do think it’s been good to get an idea of how the decision has affected Ben, but it’s taken far too long to get Chelsea to a clinic without good reason. IME I don’t for one second think the medical professionals wouldn’t have asked her.
As someone who has had more than their fair share of later MCs (I know it’s not the same but certainly the same waiting rooms etc), it’s been wildly unrealistically written, at best.

Going back to read up on the cheese when I get a moment. 🧀

Having no agency in a decision that impacts you is different (not necessarily worse or better) than a decision where you decide.
Chelsea will be able to 'own' the decision, she made the right one for her given the information she had available at the time.
Ben had no agency in the decision at all. He didn't even get to discuss the pros and cons. He knew Chelsea was expecting his child, and yet had no choice at all in what happened. That is going to be really hard on him.

I think it is perfectly possible to feel upset for both Chelsea and all the other people impacted. It isn't an either or.

Re helpline. There will possibly loads of listeners impacted. Those who have had abortions in the past, and also those suffering infertility.

They did give out helpline details after one of the recent episodes, didn't they?

@TeenDivided I completely agree about agency in the decision. I feel for them all. Like you say, there is capacity in us to feel sad for all characters involved.

Agreed. It's not that anyone is suggesting he should have had a say in the decision, but must still be hard to process. I wonder if that is why he went bananas and broke up with Beth, trying to control something else in his life? Thinking about it, Beth shouted several times "You don't get to decide Ben" and he countered with "Yes I do". (Which is true, you don't need mutual consnet to break up)

I have yet to catch up. So this is blatant place marking

Did David actually say he thought he and Ruth were good at parenting? When most of the time they can only see one of their children and she is a complete horror?

Maybe I am a hard-hearted Hannah here, but isn't that in the nature of human reproduction? The male is often excluded from decisions about pregnancy, and quite right too. He may want to become a father but in order to achieve that a woman has to go through pregnancy and childbirth. If he can find a woman who is keen to do that and to co-parent with him, that's great, but he has no right whatsoever to expect his wishes to feature in a woman's decision about pregnancy. It should be a woman's decision whether to try to become pregnant and, having conceived, whether to go on with the pregnancy.

If Ben and Chelsea had been in a relationship, especially if living together and to some extent financially interdependent, Chelsea would naturally have talked the whole thing through with Ben while trying to decide what to do, as a decision to go ahead and have a baby would have had a massive impact on both of them for the rest of their lives. Nevertheless, it would have had to be her decision in the end, as she was always the one having to face going through a pregnancy and childbirth.

If she'd been certain from the moment she found out she was pregnant that she wanted a termination, in my view she would have been within her rights to make the arrangements and get on with it without asking Ben what he thought, or even telling him that there had ever been a pregnancy, although that wouldn't have boded well for the relationship if she'd done that! Her body, her choice.

As things stood though, Ben and Chelsea were not in a relationship. A single man who chooses to have sex with a woman in her fertile years must surely at some point realise there is a chance she will become pregnant, and he will have no say whatsoever in what happens as a result. I can well believe that many young men don't think about this much, or at all, until they find themselves in Ben's position or similar, but they should.

Yes, that made me laugh. Blatant favouritism towards Pip = 'good at this parenting lark'? Puhleeze.

I won't be sorry if they decide to give the panto a miss this year.

I agree Gaspode and when David and Ruth are comforting Ben (which they will do because he is their son) they should be pointing this out.

Surely the BBC won’t want to miss their annual opportunity to fling an hour or so of (presumably) relatively cheap broadcasting at a drunken and forgiving audience?

Plus cast interviews on the radio and TA publicity in the papers and on social media??

They’d be mad to abandon it!

🎄🎄🎄

Any guesses on what they will give us this year?

This is a big failure alongside the successes or our sex education: pointing out that sex (even protected tbh) can always result in pregnancy and that this is a MASSIVE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCE.

And I don't think we have the balance right in all the Woman's Right to Choose rhetoric, I'm afraid. Yes it's her right but having consensual sex is, because of the above, entering into a kind of contract.

I know this may not be a popular opinion.

Natasha as Mary in a rewritten Nativity with twin Jesuses, which could then be commemorated with a lovely window....

(I would not be impressed with any of that, I hasten to add)

I once visited a farm in Spain where mozzarella was produced. `My abiding memory is that it absolutely stank. Not sure that the guests at LL and GG would appreciate that wafting through the evening air.

I'd been pondering about the seasonal production earlier in the thread. It's already November, so they'll have to get a move on. We started rehearsals for our Christmas am-dram production weeks ago, though I realise less time is needed in TA.

I'm hoping no more misery to be heaped on the Horrobins for a while.

Let's be positive: the Christmas production is often an interesting opportunity to move characters around a bit. Eg Kursedy and Adil, I can see that definitely being a thing on stage or behind the scenes

Hi I lurk on these threads but have listened to TA for circa 15 years.

Thought last night's episode was done really well. Just enough detail to make it clear what was happening to Chelsea. The moment when Chelsea told her mum she was scared was so emotional, I just felt the immense sadness of it all for them both. Tracey is such a lovely Mum.

I think it's right that they are showing Ben's distress at the situation, he's a sensitive type so it fits that he is being hard on himself. Splitting with Beth is his way of punishing himself. I just hope they don't make the whole thing more about Ben than Chelsea. Yes it's an upsetting situation for him too but it's Chelsea who had to make the terribly difficult decision and will live with the trauma of what she had to do. But perhaps she is stronger mentally and will cope better than Ben in the long run?

FWIW I'm glad she went through with it, it was absolutely the right decision for her and I hope we see her blossom in years to come. She deserves things to go well for her and not history repeating itself struggling through life like Tracey has.

Yes I hope they aren't forgetting the Christmas show, we need something light hearted! Can't imagine Ruth and David will feel up for it this year though 😕