Archers thread #140: Changing rooms at Brookfield with Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen, or saving souls with St Smugula in the heathen wastelands of the North? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think a stained glass window marking the birth of newborn twins is just what Ambridge needs, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title composed in haste, making use of @Octothorpe's lovely coinage of Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen and @TheLassWiADelicateAir's terrific description of St. Smugula's mission to the heathen wasteland of far flung Sunderland, both from the last thread

I've abandoned the use of an emoji in the title, having been alerted by another thread recently to the fact that it makes it difficult for people with visual problems to use assistive software.

I won't say much more about The Archers, as I'm still feeling extremely jaundiced about the programme at the moment. Fingers crossed it takes a turn for the better over the next few days. It was good to hear Helen, Lee and Joy again tonight. Less delighted to hear the loathsome George. What a numpty not to recognise pheasant chicks! His Dad would be far from impressed.

Over to you!

I was older than Chelsea and had A levels but was basically wasting my life and carelessly got pregnant. It pushed me into going to University starting when she was a year old and becoming a teacher. Having her pushed me into sorting myself out.

I have to add that that was ages ago when I got a full dependent's grant and subsidised nursery. Unfortunately not doable now.

Not read to the latest post, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g , but I'd think that it would make it a lot harder if she wated to move to where the top salons are.
A friend's daughter is a hair stylist in a trendy salon in a large Home Counties town and she works 6 days a week.

A non-vocational university course and teaching are more childcare-friendly than careers like hairdressing and nursing.

Of course, we're all talking about this as if the SWs are going to pull off a very realistic storyline. On current form, I'd say we're all going to be disappointed.

I will add if they sabotage Brad's career I will be incandescent. Chelsea will find her feet whatever she does, and her personality and aptitude are fairly easy to fit to a normal everyday job. They've written Brad as a young man with an exceptional academic talent and I want them to follow through on that, so that for once a non-Archer makes good.

I wondered if Chelsea's conversation with Alistair when he gave her a lift might have been suggesting that she was considering putting her baby up for adoption. She saw how well it can work for the child.

I thought the SWs missed a trick when they had Ian and Adam having a baby through surrogacy instead of adopting a child. They could have shown how adoption works including the training, realistic time scales, emotional and practical difficulties etc, but shown an ultimately successful adoption.

Chelsea will almost definitely have the baby now. It will be a little boy because the last three babies have been girls.

Jimsbooks, if you care to look through the last thread (though it might be the one before that!) you’ll find some discussion on the adoption possibility. Didn’t it start when Jim told her how glad he was to have Dan in his life?

Oh yes, I am sure I am not the first to suggest it. I just thought I would pop up and share my thoughts.

I did think it was a possibility a few weeks ago! Some people felt it’s not something that happens nowadays - I mean giving up a baby at birth. Since then the SWs have turned to showing Chelsea how life might be as a young single parent. They’re toying with us!

Is voluntary adoption ever done in this country? I looked into it a few years back for a young woman with a crisis pregnancy (professional contact, I'm in youth work) and both the adoption agencies I contacted told me it just doesn't happen. It's legal, obviously, but they never heard of anyone doing it. Pretty much 100% of adoptions they heard of were children removed from their parents by social services, or a few adopted by stepfathers.

@Octothorpe I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. She can get by with a child - it would just probably be easier and nicer for her not to, at this age and circumstances.

It can happen in theory but in practise I guess the mother would be heavily encouraged and supported to keep the child, which may be misguided in some cases I guess.

It's legal but as you say it doesn't happen any more. Of the 3 options- abortion, single parent or giving the baby for adoption the one which now has the stigma attached to it is adoption.

The aim is doing everything possible to let a mother keep her baby no matter how unsuitable or ill prepared she is and then mop up the mess and bring a child who is emotionally and/or physically damaged in to the care system.

We had this argument before. I still find it incomprehensible why a woman who is morally opposed to abortion but who doesn't want to be a mother should not be given the opportunity to consider adoption.

The adoption issue is interesting (I'm an adopter).

In the USA there are far more relinquished babies. I think this is because abortion is more frowned upon in certain areas (and is now illegal in some states) plus state support for single parents is woeful. So mothers are cornered into adoptions as the other two choices are taken away.

In the UK it is far easier currently to get an abortion, with little to no social stigma. There is less stigma to being an unmarried mum than in the past, and there is a benefits safety net (including free health care).

I think carrying a baby for 9 months only to have him/her taken away in the first days / weeks must be soul destroying even for those who choose that option.

I don't think Chelsea would relinquish because she doesn't not want a baby at all, she is undecided. Part of her wants to keep it, part is worried about the impact it will have on hers and others lives. If faced with a real live baby her family would rally round, however hard, to support her.

(I too wish Adam & Ian had adopted. It would have been a good storyline.)

Chels will still be wailing ‘I haven’t made a decision’ when she arrives at the delivery suite…

I think she has been let down by the adults around her who know she is pregnant. They don't seem to have properly pushed for her to see a doctor / whoever to get medical information. She is going round getting random information but not been sat down to go through options properly. I think there is being considerate of her feelings but the tiptoeing has been too much.

I am pretty appalled. Leaving aside the question of whether she should keep the pregnancy or not (clearly not in my view), the whole storyline is very irresponsible of the BBC. They are presenting it as perfectly a acceptable to get to - what is it - week 17? Of a pregnancy with no prenatal care. What about folic acid? Basic health monitoring? And to let your daughter get this late on in a pregnancy that on balance she appears not to want is grotesque.

I can’t imagine anyone ancient enough to turn on R4 regularly is sanguine about Chelsea’s lack of any antenatal care, Revengeofthepangolins. But there won’t be any teenagers listening!

Strange absence of any mention of Rex during Toby’s leaving scenes … Oh well.

I'm unconvinced by the idea that baby Horrobin will be embraced as baby Archer.

Phoebe, Henwee, Rosie and Jack all had less than ideal fathers to some extent but their mothers are Archers, so easily embraced literally and metaphorically.

Johnny's mother was less than ideal but she conveniently took herself away and Johnny conveniently replaced the much mourne

If Chelsea turns up at a doctor / midwife now, 16/17 weeks in, having known that she was pregnant for the past approx 12 weeks, but ambivalent about having the baby, having had no ante-natal care, no 12 week scan, no folic acid etc, etc, and finally decides to go ahead, would this be flagged up to social services when the baby is born?

Are they gearing up for a PND storyline?

If her LMP was 16 June, and she conceived on 1 July, she'd currently be 16 weeks, but by the time she gets an appointment, she'll be 17 weeks. (Unless there's an Ambridge immediate appointment fairy.)

I'm not so convinced as some of you that Baby Horrobin will be fully embraced as a Baby Archer and treated the same way as other Baby Archers.

The other grandchildren conceived in less than ideal circumstances (Phoebe, Henwee, Rosie and Jack) have Archer mothers- it was easy literally and metaphorically to fold them into the Archer family and to ignore the other parent.

Johnny had a less than ideal non Archer mother but Sharon, conveniently, took herself off air and Johnny, conveniently, replaced a much mourned eldest Archer son.

Brad seemed to think the Horrobins are persona non grata as his explanation for Chelsea running away was that Chelsea didn't want the village to talk about that what Chelsea has done is just what is expected from a Horrobin.

With all the publicity about Chelsea going AWOL 5(?) weeks ago and then half the village finding out that she was pregnant it is ridiculous that nobody has enquired about her welfare and asked basic stuff to make sure that she was taking care of herself.

The Carters know, the Pargetters know, half the Archers know, Jim and Alistair know, Jolene and Kenton know...... (or certainly have enough brain cells between them to figure it out).

The Horrobins were at the food bank the other week. Why hasn't it dawned on Tracey and Jazzer that Chelsea is entitled to all sorts of help while she makes her mind up!

Simmering rage (and I refuse to think about the Dopey's B&B idea).

I also wondered about the possibility of flags being raised at social services.

To be fair Chelsea probably needs some outside oversight and guidance on both health and welfare.

Would the SS interveners be kind, or otherwise?

Sorry about my duplicate post upthread.

I agree that the lack of any real concern about her welfare is concerning.