Archers thread #140: Changing rooms at Brookfield with Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen, or saving souls with St Smugula in the heathen wastelands of the North? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think a stained glass window marking the birth of newborn twins is just what Ambridge needs, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Title composed in haste, making use of @Octothorpe's lovely coinage of Leonard Llewellyn-Bowen and @TheLassWiADelicateAir's terrific description of St. Smugula's mission to the heathen wasteland of far flung Sunderland, both from the last thread

I've abandoned the use of an emoji in the title, having been alerted by another thread recently to the fact that it makes it difficult for people with visual problems to use assistive software.

I won't say much more about The Archers, as I'm still feeling extremely jaundiced about the programme at the moment. Fingers crossed it takes a turn for the better over the next few days. It was good to hear Helen, Lee and Joy again tonight. Less delighted to hear the loathsome George. What a numpty not to recognise pheasant chicks! His Dad would be far from impressed.

Over to you!

Presumably Chelsea understands that now, as a result of her appointment with the pregnancy advisory service.

More concealed information by Alan. Of course Jim won't press him on gossip.

As for Chelsea, I said on the last thread the abortion couldn't go ahead even then as too many people knew. And now even more know. An entirely unrealistic way of arriving at the decision. Or non-decsion as this is.

Natasha ceratinly doesn't see the window as anything other than the glorification of her children.

As for Alan, suffering Jesus, why can't he just say it's up to the church and be done with it. Because it is in the end. It's his weak-kneed responses do my head in.

I'm cross. And over-invested. I need second morning cuppa.

Wasn't the problem that Tracy was too petrified that Chelsea would strop off and go missing again? But quite honestly - a bit of straight talking wouldn’t have gone amiss. All this 'I'm leaving her to make her own decisions, it has to come from her' is entirely laudable, but oh, the sheer numptiness of Tracy not firmly but fairly laying out the plain facts….

Oh literally fuck right off natasha.

who in the village actually goes to church regularly?

I think the idea is that Tracey is scared of spooking Chelsea because she disappeared. But it doesn't really make sense because they're actually quite close and Tracey will not be scared of having difficult conversations. Im not the best mum, but honestly, you sometimes just know you have to bite the bullet and say what needs to be said. I understand what it is to be running a little scared of your kid but Tracey is definitely out of character here.

And Gnasher is vile and deserves a massive comeuppance!

And despite me being seemingly sympathetic, Tracey insisting that she needs to sort this out for herself is laughable. Is it realistic do we think. That someone would be so unable to make any decision at all

Oops Chelsea I mean!

Haven't commented on these threads before I don't think, but Jesus, Natasha needs taking down a peg or two (or fifty!). Unbearable woman. I'm a reasonably new Archers listener, but it sounds like this is a war memorial window, is that right? And she wants to add her newborns to it. Batshit.

What’s even weirder is that it wasn’t that long ago that Gnasher was saying how weird and insensitive it would be to have a window dedicated to her children.

I'm not keen on Natasha's behaviour (haven't forgiven their lack of sensitivity in not realising the similarities between Seren and Wren) and I suspect Tracy may have something to say to her. Also the ridiculousness of the twins, of all the children, being singled out for commemoration.

The decision to terminate will soon be out of Chelsea's hands, if not already. The number of abortions performed after 17 weeks is very small number indeed.

I didn't get the impression that Tracy intended to go through with the pregnancy story. I suspect it was a spur of the moment decision with a view to taking the heat off Chelsea, and that ultimately she intends to laugh it all off as a silly misunderstanding or say something like it was all a mix-up with her dates.

The 🔮 says that Tracey will discover that she really is pregnant.

Bit more complicated than that. It was a memorial to Jack Woolley, Peggy's husband, which also incorporated some sort of war memorial element, and Peggy paid for it, and Alan the vicar fell through it/against it and broke it. A few months ago, Peggy came up with the idea of another window in honour of the twins, Natasha was originally dead set against it but then came round to it. But yes, the idea of somehow incorporating the twins into something commemorating the war dead and Peggy's deceased husband is batshit.

What bugs me is Natasha coming round and being all pushy and aggressive about it, given that when she was first told about it she could see the objections to it. In fact, the general pushiness of the Archers around Alan over this stupid window is weird, they must surely know from their experience with Jack's window that it's a complicated process and ultimately the diocese's decision.

I guess the whole thing is going to be resolved by having a window commemorating the war dead but with a couple of babies looking on to symbolise the future they died for, or something. All tied up in time for Remembrance Sunday.

Surely you meant to quote this post, Novum?

Ooops, yes, I think I must have.

I suppose you could set up some sort of terrible rivalry and grudge between Baby Horrobin McCreery Nobody and Baby Horrobin Archer Somebody. They need to be boys for this to work.

Grandma Ruth has at least 2 spare bedrooms and will have a third when Jill goes. Ruth could wangle it that the Archer baby lives in its rightful Archer demesne and the Horrobin McCreery brat can stay in its overcrowded peasant hovel.

If Chelsea feels any kicks it will be the Horroboffspring practising his/her running technique so they can sprint, a minute after birth, to the beautifully appointed Brookfield nursery Leonard is conveniently arranging for them.

This set up will inevitably cause some minor emotional inconvenience to Ben and Beth - so perhaps they won’t be returning from New Zealand … (Oddly enough a male friend of my family emigrated to NZ and trained as a nurse there.)

I don't understand why Ben didn't say to Chelsea that an unplanned baby from a ONS wasn't ideal for him, her or the baby itself, and that it would link them for ever.

The whole SL about the stained-glass window is dull and unconvincing.

Because he is trying to be the 'good guy' and not influence her.

Because if he even hints that termination is the way to go, and she decides to keep the baby she will be ever able to hold it over him 'you didn't even want Courtney' or whatever.

I so wish that someone had forced her to sit down and go through the pros and cons, or at least how it would work if she keeps the baby.

Nobody wants to influence her.
He'd be ok to point out that it was unplanned, and that if they were to have the child, they'd need arrangements for co-parenting.
Why hasn't Tracey discussed with Chelsea things like childcare and her career, or how blending families in the future might not be plain sailing?

I don't understand why Ben didn't say to Chelsea that an unplanned baby from a ONS wasn't ideal for him, her or the baby itself, and that it would link them for ever.

What’s actually wrong with a bit of influence? If someone appears so at sea and unsure what to do then a bit of influence is required. There’s a lot to be said for good, old-fashioned sensible advice.

Ben is very wet- so busy trying to be a sensitive new man but he should have actually said, for me this is a nightmare and a termination would work better. He could then have gone into the whole ‘I’ll support you’ narrative. They can barely talk to each other - how on earth can they become parents together?

Silly Brad! That scene ended up becoming strangely Shakespearean…

I'm listening now. When talking to Ben she seemed to want him to tell her what to do.

Actually, coming back to the theme of how old age infirmity and illness is dealt with in TA, I thought Peggy was supposed to be a regular churchgoer. Has there been some bit I've missed where they explained that she's no longer up to it.

Neil is regularly practising, I think Jennifer and Jill are both reasonably/ semi- regular attendees. Harrison, of course. I'm not sure about Emma - she's involved enough to run children's activities with Nic, but I think that's mainly through Neil and Nic and she isn't independently practising. Various of the older, (now) silent characters are churchgoers, or at least were the last time we heard from them, e.g. Christine.

I don't find any of this story credible. At first it seemed it felt like a vehicle to get rid of CMR, now it feels like a vehicle to link the Horrobins and the Dopeys in perpetuity. Nothing about this story feels believable - starting with the rave (which no-one paid any attention to at the time since it felt like such a random and unlikely piece of filler) and including Jill's OTT reaction to the relationship between Beth and Ben. The fact that Chelsea is pregnant at all seems random since there has never been any suggestion of her having a sexual relationship up to this point much less being the sort of teenager who would have a random s* in a field. The fact that she is taking so long to make up her mind about what to do (after apparently going to a doctor/chemist for the morning after pill) is stretching credulity to the limit.