🧱 Archers thread #128: Alice lobs a brick, Emma hurls brickbats, Neil is a brick. Cement your relationship with The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you collect superhero figures, or other unusual things.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Apologies for not using any of the suggestions offered for this thread's title. I'll paste them in here instead to get us started.

I like the leeway pun here from @ThePawtriarchy: Bacon, Bores and Booze. Elizabeth needs convincing, Helen needs some leeway and Alice is in crisis.

@nettie434 gets to the nub of what's been happening recently: Beechwood, Batman and Booze: Rex's pigs and Helen and Lee have new homes but will Lee's collection of action figures plant the apple of discord in their sylvan idyll? Alice's alcohol problems continue to cause friction between the Aldridges and Carters. Has anyone warned Borsetshire Children's Services what awaits them?

Great one liner from @PseudoBadger - ‘Nobody puts Captain America in the corner’.

And a timely bit of advice from @JanFebAnyMonth: If this evening’s episode has raised any issues for you, please call the BBC Helpline post on this MN thread for details of organisations which might help you.

So, off we go again! We may get back to five episodes a week before the next thread. Here's hoping that it's Friday we get back, not Sunday.

I wondered if CMR's violent aversion to marrying Lily might signal that he was about to stray again

Probably not, but it will be the catalyst for the demise of the relationship.

@R4

New thread title: Come follow the exploits of Brine, Lily, Elizabeth, Usha, Ruari, George and Helen. Know collectively as bleurgh.

Love it!

Lily seems to feel very obligated to Russ.

I can't for one minute understand why Elizabeth allowed him under her roof. I can empathise a lot more with David's clumsy 'run-him-off-the-farm' response to Joooood.

in fact it feels as if the fact that Freddie was ever in prison is carefully being airbrushed from the annals

@LillianGish did you miss the moment this week when Lizzie said (referring to Freddie having to eat with her and Vince) “It’s not a prison sentence!” followed by Freddie sighing “Thanks Mum!” and Elizabeth saying “oops, sorry dear, ha ha”.

I mean, I suppose that definitely shows that the whole prison thing is now seen as a bit of an amusing irrelevance to Lizzie, but it hasn’t been forgotten by the SWs. It’s nice that it no longer weighs on Lizzie’s mind given that it was a major factor in her developing depression.

Ditto! (I caught up with Time this week too. Blown away.)

I haven't forgotten Scumbag's part in Freddie's downfall Lil'G. Never will.

It does seem extraordinary, doesn't it, that it can seem to have been swept away. But it isn't of course - his conviction only ties him more closely to LL status because the rest of the world is so much less open to him now. He struggled to find a job in Ambridge. And the projected world tour with Noluthando is dashed to pieces. I've no idea when a youth conviction is spent - will he ever be able to open a Pargetter Gallery of Modern Art in New York - f'instance? Poor boy.

MayIDestroyYou
Vince still doesn't have an individual entry in the BBC TA character lists, only a tiny photo of the actor, Tony Turner, in a group photo. I'm not totally convinced of his irresistibility - but perhaps he has bridal suite super-powers.

The BBC TA character lists still have
Jill missing Phil and no mention of Leonard
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/4rM4c9FlBBJJMRmZxHdpsR0/jill-archer
David worrying because Ruth went off to New Zealand
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/5Hhw3qhpH1lJSN20mQ8xF9w/david-archer
Ruth stuck in 2016
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/3wml4ck1DJbklVQqjZms49s/ruth-archer

and that's only the first three you come to. Tony's entry has no mention of Rob, while Helen's has nothing since Rob; Johnny has nothing since starting as an apprentice at Bridge Farm in 2014; Peggy "now lives with Christine, with sister of her first husband, at The Lodge"; Phoebe is "now a student at the University of Oxford, reading PPE".

I don't think it is a particularly reliable website these days.

This is why I just can’t get behind the Lily hate on here. Lily (who is roughly the same age as my own dd) was little more than a child when she fell into CMR’s clutches - she has always pretended to be very grown up, the ‘sensible one’, to protect Elizabeth, but underneath all that is the uncertain, still-finding-her-way-in-the-world-but-pretending-to-know-everything young woman that so many young women are at that age and we saw a glimpse of that when we heard her talking to Rex about her night with Sol. CMR is a truly dreadful creation who was happy to overlook Freddie’s drug dealing so he could keep on sleeping with his sister, was happy to dash her chances at university by making it all about him, inveigled his way into Elizabeth’s confidence to set himself up with a cosy job and home at LL and is now happy for Lily’s life to stall in Ambridge selling kitchens, but has made it quite clear he doesn’t want to make any sort of commitment to her.

Oh come off it. Lily was not a child. She's a deceitful, hypocritical brat.

Her failure to do anything beyond working in kitchen sales is her failure- not CMR's

Lily is terrible but she was a teenager and he was a fully grown adult married man. He is a predator and he deserves comeuppance.

I can't for one minute understand why Elizabeth allowed him under her roof. I can empathise a lot more with David's clumsy 'run-him-off-the-farm' response to Joooood.

Me too, but Elizardbreath thought that disapproving might push Lily closer to him and away from her.

The Dopeys were the same with Pip (bleurgh!) and Toe B.

I don't take to Lily, but come one, she was a sixth former, only just 18, and he was old enough to be her father and in a position of trust towards her. She lost her own father at a very impressionable age and has always been the responsible sensible one compared to her feckless brother. Russ behaved abysmally and should have been held to account, not rewarded with a sinecure and a cosy berth in a stately home.

I don't take to Lily, but come one, she was a sixth former, only just 18, and he was old enough to be her father and in a position of trust towards her

I agree that they don’t make enough of the age gap apart from CMR occasionally asking her if she had fun with her friends when she has been out with Phoeble or like when he referenced Sol’s party.

I was hoping Sol would see Lily hanging out with CMR at the drive-in and mistake him for being her Dad before witnessing him snogging her. I suppose they have been ‘together’ for a while now but that still doesn’t make it ok. And why does no one, particularly her mother, comment on the fact the academic year is due to start again soon and Lily is still not returning to Manchester. I hope Vince homes in on this fact.

By the way, Vince sounded like a weird escapee from that terrible film Its a Wonderful Life when he was imparting words of wisdom to Lily about how you can’t change your destiny and the need to reflect on what she would say to her younger self when she is older. His voice suddenly went very strange and then he faded off into dry ice backdrop to find his RollsRoyce. Bizarre. By the way, I really hate that crass, over-sentimental/naive film and have no idea why it’s always on lists of Top 10 films Ever!!

Sorry - I’m a bit grumpy this week- starting to sound a bit like Adam…

Doing so well, there, @Roysnewshirt, and then you diss It's A Wonderful Life! I love that film.

Still, it would be a dull world if we all liked the same things.

@R4

Barnt Green, which is technically Worcestershire but pretty much Birmingham in reality. Oh no it's not! There is a wedge of Green Belt between the two. And there always will be, if Barnt Green get their way.

Ha ha ha! If you say so.

I think Lily's character is what makes the Russ relationship so complicated. Lily was always more mature than Freddie in terms of her studiousness. However, for all Lily's mocking when Freddie went to the Isle of Wight with the express aim of losing his virginity, I actually don't remember her having a boyfriend pre Russ. It's not uncommon for young women who have lost their father to look for an older partner. It would be too easy for Russ to make her feel that being with him was a more mature and sophisticated relationship than being with someone her own age.

For me, Lily's tendency to sound superior meant that she probably did not have friends who would say Bleurgh if she told them about Russ. Of course she was unlikely to tell anyone when she was at school because she knew what the consequences would be. Then, as pointed out earlier, living alone with Russ in Manchester meant she did not establish any new friendships. So, although I don't like Lily, I do think Russ exploited her. As was also pointed out, he would definitely have faced disciplinary procedures if his moral blackmail of Freddie had also become known.

It was the same with Helen. Her self-centredness and past history of concealing things, meant that Rob could insinuate himself into her life before anyone in her family and friends realised what was happening. Kirsty did eventually work it out, of course, but too late.

I think it was quite significant that sex with Solomon was apparently so fantastic. Lily is essentially bored with Russ and won't admit it to herself - but she has now seen that there is more to life. I fear we are doomed to months of her giving in to further temptation whilst angsting about how guilty she feels because Russ paints lovely pictures of her.

Talking of sentimental films, did I hear right that the drive-in movie was “Love Actually”? Isn’t most of that film based around Christmas? Very very odd choice.

Interesting that not everyone at work knew that Lily had a live in boyfriend (or that she lived in a Stately Home).

Where is Lewis? Is it him banging on the pipes?

Which reminds me, Havering - how on Earth has Lily managed to keep her identity secret on social media?

Does she use a fake surname? I mean - how would that work? She must have plenty of old friends (even if abandoned) from the Cathedral School or Sixth Form. And surely others. How does she maintain a social life if people she already knows are not allowed to mention LL - or the word Pargetter?

What would Sol have seen when he googled her?

It's really weird.

(And no, Google wouldn't link me to my home address - but it surely must if you live in a stately home?)

By the way, I really hate that crass, over-sentimental/naive film and have no idea why it’s always on lists of Top 10 films Ever!!

Oh me too.

Lots of young people shun the older social media platforms nowadays. They also frequently seem to like talking via voice note which I find sound annoying and it makes me feel old.

I think it's highly conceivable that Lily has kept her home life close to her chest. The call centre job was meant to be an escape from LL and Russ (wasn't it? Have I made that up?) I think she always liked keeping things separate.

Yes, but how?

When she applied for the job she must have given her full name. Surely? (References would have had to show her real name.) How many Pargetter families are there in Borsetshire? Even if she's not personally posing and pouting all over SM, her name connects her to LL.

Lily has been there a while now, and I imagine people come and go. It sounds like she is good at her job and probably just gets on with it and gets on with her colleagues over the water cooler and the odd after work drink. Why would any of her 'shop floor' co-workers know where she lives unless she discloses that information? She could keep her social media private.