🐷 Archers thread #127: Discuss the boars and sows of Ambridge here - or should that be bores and soused? You decide.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to live opposite Joy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

These threads normally last around a month. When I started the last one, we were bracing ourselves for the Mystery Play, but that storyline, which had never exactly set the airwaves on fire, fizzled out and has (I hope) gone away, never to return.

@LillianGish proposed a new thread title which I'll use instead as a scene-setter for this thread. What a carry on - Nurse (Ben), Sergeant (Harrison), Camping (Kate), Jack (either one of them), Regardless (all of us for continuing to tune tune in)

What a carry on, indeed! Other storylines sputtering away:

• Alice, Chris, Martha - Have they split up, and if so where is Alice living? Will there be a christening and who will be godparents? When will the Aldridges and Carters find out about Alice's drinking? Too much to hope that Alice will get blind drunk at the christening party in full view of the entire village, I suppose. I'm still clinging to my hope that she lamps Alan after a suggestion that they pray together.

• Will Rex find a new home for his pigs? If Elizabeth weakens, will the pigs escape and disrupt the Lower Loxley life drawing event on Monday? Might they stampede, knock Ross out and devour him?

• Will Jazzer go to work for Neil? (This isn't exactly a cliffhanger. Of course he will.)

• Will Justin bury Lilian under the patio? Not a jury in the land would convict him, I feel, if they were played a recording of that appalling cackle and her gloating about the daffodil photograph.

• Will the life drawing event on Monday be a brilliantly amusing interlude, exemplifying how to write character-driven drama, with both comic and more serious moments? Answer: No, obviously. I may have to listen from behind a cushion.

There are more. I find myself struggling to care.

Oh, and one final mention - I've proposed a webchat with the Archers editor. @MayIDestroyYou's idea. You'll find it here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4231475-Webchat-idea-The-Editor-of-The-Archers-Or-another-Archers-production-team-representative

Over to you!

, Pluck. Nasty.

I think it's a rock - some sledgehammer symbolism from the SWs (in the style of E.M Forster) that Alice has hit rock bottom. Poor Susan - and she had an independent witness with her (ie no-one from either family) so no-one will be playing it down, making excuses and being prepared to give Alice the benefit of the doubt.

Hello, just joining in with the BOOPs accorded to the most recent scripts, and the performances by the actors of Neil, Alice, Jim and Susan (in that order!).
That aside, though, I am very puzzled as to why Jenny and Brian haven't interfered more and at least started discussions with Chris and his family about looking after Martha some of the time themselves, although I suppose there's not enough room for a baby and her paraphernalia in Willow Cottage and in any case, they probably feel unable to care for a baby full time, these days. I agree with a previous poster that someone, presumably her parents, should be looking for help/treatment/support for Alice and her alcoholism, as well as being present to supervise her visits to Martha, even if Chris is there as well. I find it odd that the Aldridge family has let the Carter family take over the care of Martha and the treatment of Alice so completely.

The reason the Carter family have "taken over the care of Martha" is because she is with her father, the parent who is not an alcoholic, and he just happens to be a Carter and so is staying with his family who are supporting him and helping take care of his daughter. There is no reason why he and Martha should not be with his family. Jennifer, Brian and Alice can visit, but Alice should not be allowed unsupervised visits although I don't think Chris should be the one supervising Alice as she just used her time visiting to attack Chris and blame him for her drinking. It needs to be someone calm to supervise those visits, so not Emma 😂.

As to helping Alice get help, it won't work unless Alice herself wants to stop drinking. You can't make an addict give up their addiction, they have to want it enough to make that commitment, after all it is the addict that is going to have to put in the hard work, day after day, for the rest of their lives, that is a hard thing to come to terms with for the addict, let alone their immediate family.

What a great episode! This, dear listeners, is why we accept that some episodes will be utter drivel.

After all these years of drinking I am very surprised that Alice hasn't organised a "booze bank account" and a delivery service.

I think the noise was a bottle(?) being lobbed through a window (though I think most shops have shatterproof reinforced glass these days [somebody tried to rob our local shop in the last lockdown and the CCTV apparently showed them failing to break in using a scaffolding pole and some breeze blocks]

I thought the noise was the scales falling from Shula's eyes when she realised she wasn't suited to the ministry.

@ThePluckOfTheCoward

The reason the Carter family have "taken over the care of Martha" is because she is with her father, the parent who is not an alcoholic, and he just happens to be a Carter and so is staying with his family who are supporting him and helping take care of his daughter. There is no reason why he and Martha should not be with his family. Jennifer, Brian and Alice can visit, but Alice should not be allowed unsupervised visits although I don't think Chris should be the one supervising Alice as she just used her time visiting to attack Chris and blame him for her drinking. It needs to be someone calm to supervise those visits, so not Emma 😂.

As to helping Alice get help, it won't work unless Alice herself wants to stop drinking. You can't make an addict give up their addiction, they have to want it enough to make that commitment, after all it is the addict that is going to have to put in the hard work, day after day, for the rest of their lives, that is a hard thing to come to terms with for the addict, let alone their immediate family.

You're talking normal world stuff here, not the Ambridge families we know and - er - love.

You're talking normal world stuff here, not the Ambridge families we know and - er - love.

Oh yes, I forget that sometimes, too invested☺️

But she probably hasn't fully accepted that she is one, despite the evidence. At what point are they legally obliged to tell the DVLA? If it involves self diagnosis then it's a bit hit and miss.

But she has, hasn't she? Didn't she say so to Chris?

Alish has always been a nasty drunk and can be pretty unpleasant when sober too.

I think Susan has been seriously injured and I'm just hoping they haven't dedded her.

@JoeGrundyWasMyRoleModel

I thought the noise was the scales falling from Shula's eyes when she realised she wasn't suited to the ministry.

More likely she thinks God is sticking up for her and punishing Susan for double billing her for the Telegraph.

I think Susan has been seriously injured and I'm just hoping they haven't dedded her.

Oh me too.

It's improved so much that I've started listening to the evening episodes, just like I always did in the olden days, before the great pestilence swept through the realm.

I just assumed that noise at the end of last night's episode was a car being badly driven and reversing accidentally into the shop. But then I listened again, and it sounded more like the smashing of an empty bottle which had been thrown at the shop window.

@TwoBlondes

Alcoholics are legally obliged to inform the DVLA. I'm surprised (or not) that Harrison never warned Alice or Chris.

Yes, and it seems as though you don't actually need a diagnosis. The wording at www.gov.uk/alcohol-problems-and-driving is just "You must tell DVLA if you have an alcohol problem."

I imagine that the detox would count as having had treatment for it, and her continuing to drink afterwards would count as a problem.

www.gov.uk/guidance/drug-or-alcohol-misuse-or-dependence-assessing-fitness-to-drive#alcohol-dependence

would presumably come into play if she has now been found to have a strong desire to take alcohol and difficulties in controlling its use; Harrison would be a reasonable police witness to that.

Neil and Susan are in their 50s but Brine & Jennydarling are in their 70s.

ThePluckOfTheCoward
The reason the Carter family have "taken over the care of Martha" is because she is with her father, the parent who is not an alcoholic, and he just happens to be a Carter and so is staying with his family who are supporting him and helping take care of his daughter. There is no reason why he and Martha should not be with his family. Jennifer, Brian and Alice can visit, but Alice should not be allowed unsupervised visits although I don't think Chris should be the one supervising Alice as she just used her time visiting to attack Chris and blame him for her drinking. It needs to be someone calm to supervise those visits, so not Emma 😂.

Someone who might actually be rather good in this situation is Lynda. She can be very soothing and sensible when it matters, so long as what is wrong is not personal to her; she has done it before for Kate.

Chris hasn't tried to prevent Alice from being with Martha altogether, ; he has tried to prevent her from being with Martha when Alice is drunk, which might well be thought reasonable by a family court.

Alice decided to stop breast-feeding, and Alice has stated more than once and to more than one person that she didn't want Martha, doesn't want Martha, and doesn't want to be with her. That she has also said she loves her and nobody has any right to stop her from being with her may be true at the same time, but the not-wanting stuff would make me definitely chary about leaving her alone with the baby if I were in Chris' position and putting the baby first. I'd be scared that the not-wanting might come to the top if Alice were drunk and as a result unpredictable, and she might harm Martha in a moment of dislike for her existence.

@Zzelda

But she probably hasn't fully accepted that she is one, despite the evidence. At what point are they legally obliged to tell the DVLA? If it involves self diagnosis then it's a bit hit and miss.

But she has, hasn't she? Didn't she say so to Chris?

Has told the DVLA or realised she is an alcoholic?

Either way, my point stands generally that leaving it to alcoholics to diagnose themselves and voluntarily hand in their driving licences is a bit unlikely to happen in most cases. Until they cause an accident and lose their licence in court anyway.

If this were real (insert [washing mouth out with soap emoticon] HERE), surely Harrison would have been obliged to report to the DVLA. He'd have known about this requirement, which I didn't until I read this thread. (I'm not a driver.) Is this widely known amongst drivers? It strikes me as rather wishful thinking, asking problem drinkers to make themselves known to the authorities so they can have their licences removed more easily, presumably.

@JoeGrundyWasMyRoleModel

I thought the noise was the scales falling from Shula's eyes when she realised she wasn't suited to the ministry.

@ILoveShula
Neil and Susan are in their 50s but Brine & Jennydarling are in their 70s.

Neil was born in 1957 & so 63/4 and Susan is 57 (born Oct 1963).

"I suppose there's not enough room for a baby and her paraphernalia in Willow Cottage." Plenty of people have babies in far less space. I think it's much more like it that either Brine and JD haven't thought to ask (which seems mad, but perhaps under the umbrella of "all this will blow over soon"), or probably that the Carters realise full well that Brine and JD are in total denial about Alice being a menace to herself and others. If I were the Carters, I'd be damn sure they'd be leaving Alice alone with Martha the moment they had the chance.

It's interesting isn't it, we've had coparenting but this could become cograndparenting. But is anyone else a bit... intrigued that Chris Must Go To Work but of course Susan should take time off/be up in the night anyway despite working two jobs? I presume it's just pure sexism? Surely a more logical thing would be Susan and Neil supporting Chris financially if need be to get some help in for his business, and he parents?

Blimey Susan was a very young mother!

Helen was very kind and considerate to Susan, but I'm sure at the back of her mind was the incident with Clarrie a few years back where a moment of carelessness over hygiene resulted in an E Coli incident and massive reputational damage to Bridge Farm. They really can't afford to have someone working there whose mind isn't on the job.

@TheThermalStair

Blimey Susan was a very young mother!

How old are Chris and Emma? Didn't Susan get married because she was pregnant? I seem to vaguely remember this.

I think she's around my age Captain, mid thirties? I reckon Susan would have been about 20.