🐷 Archers thread #127: Discuss the boars and sows of Ambridge here - or should that be bores and soused? You decide.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to live opposite Joy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

These threads normally last around a month. When I started the last one, we were bracing ourselves for the Mystery Play, but that storyline, which had never exactly set the airwaves on fire, fizzled out and has (I hope) gone away, never to return.

@LillianGish proposed a new thread title which I'll use instead as a scene-setter for this thread. What a carry on - Nurse (Ben), Sergeant (Harrison), Camping (Kate), Jack (either one of them), Regardless (all of us for continuing to tune tune in)

What a carry on, indeed! Other storylines sputtering away:

• Alice, Chris, Martha - Have they split up, and if so where is Alice living? Will there be a christening and who will be godparents? When will the Aldridges and Carters find out about Alice's drinking? Too much to hope that Alice will get blind drunk at the christening party in full view of the entire village, I suppose. I'm still clinging to my hope that she lamps Alan after a suggestion that they pray together.

• Will Rex find a new home for his pigs? If Elizabeth weakens, will the pigs escape and disrupt the Lower Loxley life drawing event on Monday? Might they stampede, knock Ross out and devour him?

• Will Jazzer go to work for Neil? (This isn't exactly a cliffhanger. Of course he will.)

• Will Justin bury Lilian under the patio? Not a jury in the land would convict him, I feel, if they were played a recording of that appalling cackle and her gloating about the daffodil photograph.

• Will the life drawing event on Monday be a brilliantly amusing interlude, exemplifying how to write character-driven drama, with both comic and more serious moments? Answer: No, obviously. I may have to listen from behind a cushion.

There are more. I find myself struggling to care.

Oh, and one final mention - I've proposed a webchat with the Archers editor. @MayIDestroyYou's idea. You'll find it here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4231475-Webchat-idea-The-Editor-of-The-Archers-Or-another-Archers-production-team-representative

Over to you!

Chris has seen that she is not reliable (over many months of very similar "it will all be difference now, it's a new start" claims) and does not think, as I do not, that it takes less than a week to overcome an addiction to alcohol.

I have to admit that her wild accusations and self-justifications didn't sound to me much like someone who is "trying so hard", which she also said. They sounded more like someone who's had a drink just to help her cope with something she sounds stressful, as happened before the christening. And Chris, unlike everyone I know, seems unable to smell drink on someone else's breath -- or maybe he could, and that was why he asked whether she'd been drinking when he got close to her, who knows.

He knows her too well, and that is why he ought not to be the person who is there when she is with Martha; and she knows him, too, and knows exactly what to say to hurt him. If Susan or Jennifer or Neil were there instead, she would not be so able to start the usual round of accusation at them.

she finds stressful!

Having someone else there to help her is very different from taking her baby away from her, or making her leave her baby. Which is what Chris is doing.

Because he believed her to have been drinking, he asked her to leave. That isn't quite the same.

I remember that she has said more than once that she wanted nothing to do with Martha, and I expect he does as well.

I really think it would be a mistake for the Aldridges to go to court, Alice will end up seeing the baby in a contact centre !

Othere thank her detox at the start of the pregnancy & harrison not arrestting her is there any other evidence of Alices drinking othere than chris word? If it it got nasty could chris prive it?

It was nice of Helen to look after Susan but I thought she could have shown at least a passing interest in her cousin's welfare. She didn't mention Alice at all which was odd.

Chris is not denying Alice access to her child. He is simply refusing to leave a tiny baby alone with her extremely unstable mother which seems quite reasonable. She is very ill and in complete denial. If the situation were reversed Alice would be praised for protecting the baby.

Helen was lovely tonight too. Boop

She didn't mention Alice at all which was odd

I don't think that would have been right. Helen likes babies and children- is she close to Alice? It's Martha who would have been uppermost in her thoughts. And is she really going to ask Susan how the person who has caused all the problems is?

Chris is not denying Alice access to her child

Yes he is. He told her to leave.

She has stated that she misses her child. Withholding access is only going to make her feel worse.

@Atichen

Othere thank her detox at the start of the pregnancy & harrison not arrestting her is there any other evidence of Alices drinking othere than chris word? If it it got nasty could chris prive it?

The hospital to which she was admitted having passed out because of alcohol might be a reasonable place to look for evidence that she had drunk to excess, if they are allowed to give it. I don't know whether patient confidentiality would mean they had to refuse to comment.

What we all heard on air of occasions of which she got drunk and became reckless and/or verbally offensive were also heard/seen by many of the village.

If "having once drunk to excess" and "getting drunk a few times" was enough to get your children taken away, I reckon a lot of MNers would be bereft... including me!

For full disclosure, I'm an alcoholic who has stopped drinking. And the way Chris is dealing with Alice would have sent me right back.

Yes, but could that be twisted by brians well paid lawyer as 'she had a problem, found out she was pregnant, got help, (and then stayed sober through pregnancy) and now and post child birth what new mothere hadnt enjoyed the odd glass of wine (i know we know diffrent) but it could be painted as evil Chris took the baby away from its mum, making out she was drunk but what proof did he have, (even at the church no one saw alice nearly drop her)... All evere wanted was the baby/He used alice as an incubator etc (have i watched too much judge judy)

Ohh sorry thursday weld that wasnt directed at you i failed to quote askings reply to me

I can't see the current not do great script writers dragging it on much longer - I'm thinking Alice lapses again - perhaps drives whilst over limit or falls asleep whilst with Martha ?

I dont think it's going to end well

On an aside can't believe Jackbis nearly 5 ....5

I agree with ThursdayWeld that Chris is not helping Alice. He does not seem to have made the tiniest effort to read up on alcohol misuse and he behaving as if Alice had been having repeated relapses over many years. It's frustrating as he never seemed to be concerned when Other things happened as a result of Alice's drinking, such as Nic's funeral. Emma also seems to have forgotten when Ed fell out of the tree at one of Alice's birthday parties. It's surprising as she seems to remember the tiniest slight but this time her anger was justified.

Chris is out of his depth.

I was actually quite impressed by Hollie Chapman's acting. A nanosecond before Chris asked Alice if she'd been drinking I was thinking exactly the same thing, based entirely on the way she was speaking. Something to do with the way she starts to speak a bit too loudly, I think, as much as what she's saying.

Classic incredibly irritating and soapy device used in last episode of Character A slowly working up to say something important to Character B but failing because of a last minute distraction. Come on, SWs! I want to hear Jennifer shrieking at her nonagenarian mother and then I want a full on, no holds barred row between Lilian or Tony and Jennifer, with Lilian/Tony fighting Peggy's corner.

Big BOOP for Helen. She was uncharacteristically lovely to Susan. I suppose it's credible that her own dreadful experiences have changed her and made her more considerate and empathetic. The Helen who cut Hayley out of John's pig business all those years ago would have given Susan a final warning for turning up late.

@ThursdayWeld

Chris is not denying Alice access to her child

Yes he is. He told her to leave.

She has stated that she misses her child. Withholding access is only going to make her feel worse.

He asked her to leave after she began ranting and raving and he suspected she'd been drinking. Again, not unreasonable and if a woman asked her alcoholic, verbally abusive husband to leave her family premises she would be supported.

They had agreed on a scheduled time for Alice's visit which needed to be cut short. That is not denying access. They had to reach that agreement because up until a day or so previously Alice did not want to see her child at all. Chris has no way of knowing if she will change her mind again and suddenly not want to see Martha because she feels 'overwhelmed' or undeserving' so if I were in his shoes I would be cautious about unlimited access. He'll also be aware that members of Alice's family are completely minimising the severity of the problem so I would not be happy to leave Martha with the Aldridge's in general.

His wife is an addict. She places alcohol above all else including the welfare of her child. She is still in absolute denial (see her claim that she has completely changed in the space of a week). What is he supposed to do?

I do agree with a PP that Chris should not be the one to supervise Alice's visits but I do not blame him for asking her to leave.

Chris is not the sharpest tool in the box - he is a blunt instrument. He was in complete denial about Alice's drinking for long enough because he simply could not see it. Having eventually clocked on, mainly as a result of his chat with Peggy, he then seems to have taken her advice to the letter and without any further discussion with anyone else or any attempt to find a support group for himself he has kicked Alice into touch in the firm belief that he is doing the right thing for Martha. I really hope the point of this story is to see Chris talk to an expert and get some proper advice to show the kind of support that is out there (rather as Helen and Susan now seem to be raising awareness about mental health) and not just to ramp up the drama to a point where it ceases to be believable (and is thereafter never mentioned again after a long silence during which the story moves on to mystery plays, cricket and the flower and produce show).

If the Brine and JD have any sense, rather than throwing money at lawyers they will come to an agreement that they will always be there when Martha is with Alice, and will under no circumstances leave Alice alone with Martha. And also perhaps use their money for more support/treatment for her alcoholism.

Big BOOP for Helen. She was uncharacteristically lovely to Susan.

Indeed.

Where's Pat? ...

Where's Pat? apparently she'll be silently helping out in the dairy while Susan is on her compassionate leave. At least she got a mention so someone has remembered she exists which is more than can be said for Usha.

Classic incredibly irritating and soapy device used in last episode of Character A slowly working up to say something important to Character B but failing because of a last minute distraction.

It’s incredibly annoying isn’t it? I think Peggy will be ‘outed’ by Chris.

I agree about Hollie Chapman’s acting. I’ve never rated her at all (not helped by Alice being so insufferable) but she’s really upped her game. I also had a ‘hang on, has she been drinking’ moment. It’s quite subtley done but very good.

Big BOOP for Neil, I welled up listening to him. Still waters run deep, eh?

What I found fascinating was the way Neil's outburst to his daughter - how her motormouth was adding to everyone's stress - was so reminiscent of his long repressed outburst towards his wife for gossiping and grudge bearing several months / a couple of years ago.

Very nicely done. Definite BOOP to the SWs for showing us Neil comprehending just how alike his wife and daughter are.