🐷 Archers thread #127: Discuss the boars and sows of Ambridge here - or should that be bores and soused? You decide.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to live opposite Joy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

These threads normally last around a month. When I started the last one, we were bracing ourselves for the Mystery Play, but that storyline, which had never exactly set the airwaves on fire, fizzled out and has (I hope) gone away, never to return.

@LillianGish proposed a new thread title which I'll use instead as a scene-setter for this thread. What a carry on - Nurse (Ben), Sergeant (Harrison), Camping (Kate), Jack (either one of them), Regardless (all of us for continuing to tune tune in)

What a carry on, indeed! Other storylines sputtering away:

• Alice, Chris, Martha - Have they split up, and if so where is Alice living? Will there be a christening and who will be godparents? When will the Aldridges and Carters find out about Alice's drinking? Too much to hope that Alice will get blind drunk at the christening party in full view of the entire village, I suppose. I'm still clinging to my hope that she lamps Alan after a suggestion that they pray together.

• Will Rex find a new home for his pigs? If Elizabeth weakens, will the pigs escape and disrupt the Lower Loxley life drawing event on Monday? Might they stampede, knock Ross out and devour him?

• Will Jazzer go to work for Neil? (This isn't exactly a cliffhanger. Of course he will.)

• Will Justin bury Lilian under the patio? Not a jury in the land would convict him, I feel, if they were played a recording of that appalling cackle and her gloating about the daffodil photograph.

• Will the life drawing event on Monday be a brilliantly amusing interlude, exemplifying how to write character-driven drama, with both comic and more serious moments? Answer: No, obviously. I may have to listen from behind a cushion.

There are more. I find myself struggling to care.

Oh, and one final mention - I've proposed a webchat with the Archers editor. @MayIDestroyYou's idea. You'll find it here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4231475-Webchat-idea-The-Editor-of-The-Archers-Or-another-Archers-production-team-representative

Over to you!

Why is a Weevil/Something to hide? I used to know a weevil taxonomist. He explained to me at length how superior they were to beetles. Cautious in their movements, checking out every step, not scurrying around blindly like beetles.

He then continued to talk about their sexual bits.

I read that as a weevil taxidermist. Was thinking "How? HOW?!?"

@BoreOfWhabylon

I read that as a weevil taxidermist. Was thinking "How? HOW?!?"

With a loupe and a very steady hand?

I am not a weevil as such (happily) but a small piece of coloured pasteboard from a tarot what you don't want to wot of

I kind of hope Brian (given hes been so blunt with falon) points out to Emur shes being a bit pot calling the kettle.. about Alice hurting people and breaking chris heart... What with her sleeping with her husbands brother, driving ed to drugs and now living with an ex addict, or does that not count as she didn't abandon George (sorry somewhat hazey memort of this)

Why are they not mentioning Alcoholics Anonymous at any point throughout this, it seems like the obvious organisation that would be referred to? It seems like an obvious exclusion at this point, also that none of the help for Alice has referred to Chris going to a support group. Wondering if there’s some reason why the BBC don’t endorse (for want of a better word) AA 🤷‍♀️

I assume they don't mention Alcoholics Anonymous because AA might complain at the way they are portrayed. For instance, Lisa hasn't really helped Alice. The incident in the car with Harrison occurred after she went to her 'support group' so not really a good advert for AA. Similarly, when Helen phoned a refuge, they did not name a specific organisation.

I am sorry I missed the AIBU thread. I actually imagine Emmur as a regular AIBU poster who often gets angry when other posters point out contradictions in her threads or take her to task for repeating a mistake.

I was interested to read about Alice's remarks to Amy, MayIDestroyYou. I must have been having a non-listening phase then because I didn't realise they even knew each other. I remember really liking Amy about the time Henry was born when she recognised Helen's pre-eclampsia. I was disappointed she was written out and had been hoping she might return during Alice's pregnancy. Her grandmother, Mabel, was another good character but Alan seems not be in touch with either of them now. Mind you, Usha has vanished too so no wonder Alan only seems to talk to Shula or Chris and Alice these days.

I enjoyed last night's episode but tonight was a bit of an anti climax.

For work related reasons I'm quite keen to stay calm and collected this morning - so I'll just leave this here:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/2z3dZySt69Qb0zHfdXP0h04/amy-franks

I didn't hear the Ambridge Extra (?) episodes where they decided to invent a back story for Amy's poor dead mother (only learned of it from comments here) but the thought of it makes me apoplectic.

Yes, I too had my hopes raised that she might re-appear to be a support to Alice after Martha's birth. I have often thought of Amy, exiled like Bethany Tucker, and possibly for similar reasons - not suitable for Ambridge. It seems ridiculous because there's absolutely no reason why she should not have stayed in the village and either commuted to whichever hospital or worked as what used to be called a district nurse. She at least, unlike most people with average salaries and no inherited Ambridge land, would have had help from her rich step-mother to afford somewhere to live. Even if she lived in Felpersham she could still have been part of Ambridge life. But no.

(On a related note, if the producerd no longer employ the actor who played Usha, then the character needs to be re-voiced. She had a role in the village; Ruth's friend, Vicar's wife, lawyer of multiple specialisms, thorn in Shula's side. Just stupid to have effectively written the character out.)

There's very little rhyme and reason I can see in which characters get to stay in Ambridge and which ones are exiled. In the case of Bethany Tucker, it may be that the SWs decided they couldn't do justice to a storyline about a child with Down Syndrome growing up in a village. I disagree, as they could without much difficulty at all have thrown in occasional references to how well she was getting on at Loxley Barratt Primary with 1:1 support from a teaching assistant, brief mention of whether later one she was going to go to Borchester Green or a special school, and then later she could have gone to Borchester FE college where they probably have post-16 courses for students with learning disabilities. In due course, there could have been a well-researched storyline about parents having to make tough decisions about how to ensure an adult child with learning disability is supported all through life, and the effect on said child's siblings. Bethany could have moved into supported housing in Borchester.

Instead of which, we had Mike agreeing to leave the countryside, where he had lived and worked all his adult life, and move to Birmingham, and Roy, who had always been extremely close to his family, now seems to have forgotten he has any, given how infrequently they're mentioned.

Great shame.

Similarly, Amy could have far more plausibly stayed in Ambridge after she qualified than Phoebe. There's work for a qualified midwife in the rural West Midlands, and lots of opportunities to move up the career ladder if that's what Amy had wanted. An Oxford PPE graduate, not so much.

What was the story about Amy’s mother, I didn’t know about that?

Speaking of Usha, just out of interest, for the people who are making judgments about Alice's character and suitability as a mother now based on a racist remark, how do we feel about Roy, who actually took the racist action of posting dog excrement through a letterbox in the past? Racism is unacceptable and dreadful but I despair of a society in which nobody can change, grow and move on from it.
(I know, I know they are only fictional!)

@JanFebAnyMonth

What was the story about Amy’s mother, I didn’t know about that?

It's in the link above. I didn't know about that either.

"When she discovered that her mother had been sentenced for a violent incident as a teenager, Amy worried that her own hot temper might one day get her into similar trouble."
Funny how Amy worries about the violence-gene but the descendants of Jack Archer don't worry about the alcoholism-gene.

BOOP for Ruari last night. People haranguing Alice is counterproductive. Gently drawing her out and letting her come to her own conclusions worked much better.
I still don't know if Alice wants the baby or not. Or is that the point? - she doesn't know either.

I love your story arc for Bethany Gaspode - it does feel like a real missed opportunity. I think one of the reasons she was written out was because at that time there was a determination (by SOC?) I think to make Archer families the focus of TA which is why Phoebe made the cut, but the rest of the family had to go (with Roy just hanging on by the skin of his teeth by dint of being Phoebe's father I assume). Usha's disappearance is just bizarre - she doesn't even get a mention now despite being married to a cast regular. They could have turned her into a comedy silent like Freda Fry at the very least or even killed her off. It seems unfortunate to say the least that Alan Franks has lost both a wife (along with his first wife!) and daughter - newer listeners might not even have realised he had either. At least Moike and Vicki Tucker were moved on so we know where they have gone even if we don't agree they should have left - Usha, Kathy Perks and even Carol Tregorran (though to be honest I never understood why she was introduced in the first place) have all disappeared off the face of the earth and no-one seems remotely concerned considering other comings and goings are scrutinised so closely. It used to be the case that listening intently and having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the programme was an aid to listening, now it is fast becoming an irritant.

@CeciledeVolanges

Speaking of Usha, just out of interest, for the people who are making judgments about Alice's character and suitability as a mother now based on a racist remark, how do we feel about Roy, who actually took the racist action of posting dog excrement through a letterbox in the past? Racism is unacceptable and dreadful but I despair of a society in which nobody can change, grow and move on from it. (I know, I know they are only fictional!)

I thought Roy's role was to mention to known racists at college that an Asian woman had moved into his village and give them her address, but he wasn't personally involved in the attacks. Bad enough, but he did apologise to Usha and has not as far as we know done anything similar in the 26 years since.

On the basis that we've managed to cope with "new Kate", "new Tony", "new Clarke", "new Tom".... I think we could have coped with replacement actresses for Usha, Amy etc.

I think it is a shame to have ditched Kathy and Jamie Perks (is that still their surname?).

As a tree surgeon, Jamie could have dipped in and out of most storylines (assuming he did qualify and didn't go off the rails). He and Kathy would have had strong views about The Bull. (That would have saved us from Lynda's ridiculous protest).

More importantly, they would have been friends to Oliver, Shula, Pat, Clarrie.... Ed and Emmur, Josh, Chris.

I'm still annoyed about the Tuckers!

For "Clarke", read "Clarrie" (I have an Archers-hating phone).

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g at least from a legal perspective, giving someone's address who then goes on to be attacked is most certainly taking part in the attack.

I thought he was at least lookout or something when the poo went through the letterbox?

I thought the Ruari conversation wrought a somewhat quick change in Alish. However I guess the main purpose of last night was to move us to her wanting to see Martha... and maybe being refused??

[quote CeciledeVolanges]@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g at least from a legal perspective, giving someone's address who then goes on to be attacked is most certainly taking part in the attack.[/quote]
Roy went to the police and gave them the names of the people he had told it to, after they had physically attacked Usha. His having done that was probably why his father's market garden was trashed and he was beaten up.

I'm totally pissed off and frustrated, even after all these years that they exiled Mike and his family to Birmingham along with Hayley and daughter (can't remember her name) and seemed to have got rid off Kathy and Jamie, Usha and Amy, and don't get me started on the decision to kill off Nigel. And yet they left us Kate and Alice. I'm praying for a crazed lone gunman to turn up in the village and shoot Kate in her foul, whinging, self entitled, ridiculously accented mouth, and maybe he could take out Alice as a bonus. Harrumph.

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread and certainly not trying to provoke anyone or say Alice is perfect, or anything like that. However, I would say whether or not Roy was involved in a racially motivated attack is a separate question to a) what he did afterwards, b) what the consequences to him were, c) whether this is sufficient to constitute making up for his previous involvement in the attack. I'm going to stop now because I think I'm just prolonging an unnecessary argument. Sorry.

Roy and Hayley's daughter is Abigail.

Amy did have a new actress, and the missing Usha wasn't the original Usha.

It used to be the case that listening intently and having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the programme was an aid to listening, now it is fast becoming an irritant.

Absolutely, exactly this. Perfectly put, Lil'G - as always!

I do love scenes between Ruairi and Jenny. He's so different with her - so tentative and ... I don't even have the words, but it's lovely. Their whole history is apparent in every single exchange.

Oh yes, one other thing - Emma calling Brian, Brian Aldridge. Her late grandfather-in-law would have been proud!

Ruarie is lovely.

I despair of a society in which nobody can change, grow and move on from it. Totally agree. A society evolves. Or at lest, we hope it does.