🐷 Archers thread #127: Discuss the boars and sows of Ambridge here - or should that be bores and soused? You decide.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to live opposite Joy, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

These threads normally last around a month. When I started the last one, we were bracing ourselves for the Mystery Play, but that storyline, which had never exactly set the airwaves on fire, fizzled out and has (I hope) gone away, never to return.

@LillianGish proposed a new thread title which I'll use instead as a scene-setter for this thread. What a carry on - Nurse (Ben), Sergeant (Harrison), Camping (Kate), Jack (either one of them), Regardless (all of us for continuing to tune tune in)

What a carry on, indeed! Other storylines sputtering away:

• Alice, Chris, Martha - Have they split up, and if so where is Alice living? Will there be a christening and who will be godparents? When will the Aldridges and Carters find out about Alice's drinking? Too much to hope that Alice will get blind drunk at the christening party in full view of the entire village, I suppose. I'm still clinging to my hope that she lamps Alan after a suggestion that they pray together.

• Will Rex find a new home for his pigs? If Elizabeth weakens, will the pigs escape and disrupt the Lower Loxley life drawing event on Monday? Might they stampede, knock Ross out and devour him?

• Will Jazzer go to work for Neil? (This isn't exactly a cliffhanger. Of course he will.)

• Will Justin bury Lilian under the patio? Not a jury in the land would convict him, I feel, if they were played a recording of that appalling cackle and her gloating about the daffodil photograph.

• Will the life drawing event on Monday be a brilliantly amusing interlude, exemplifying how to write character-driven drama, with both comic and more serious moments? Answer: No, obviously. I may have to listen from behind a cushion.

There are more. I find myself struggling to care.

Oh, and one final mention - I've proposed a webchat with the Archers editor. @MayIDestroyYou's idea. You'll find it here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4231475-Webchat-idea-The-Editor-of-The-Archers-Or-another-Archers-production-team-representative

Over to you!

@MereDintofPandiculation

But I did enjoy her laying into Alice. Of the two, I prefer JD.

Oh I much prefer JD. Being an alcoholic is the most interesting Alish has been.

Poor Alice. What a complete mess.

Of JD's three daughters, two have turned out to be hopeless mothers and one appears to have chosen* not to be a mother at all.

*I feel sure that, had Debbie wanted a child, she would have had one.

Also, I've always liked Joy.

Adam didn't really want a baby either. He went along with it to keep Ian happy.

That's true Eastie

Adam bought a baby to pacify his stroppy spouse. Was JD worried about the surrogate, on whom she was forcing nourishing fish dishes and generally impinging? Was she heck as like. Remember how worried she was that the incubator on legs might renege and deprive Dear Adam of what was his by rights? It was repulsive.

So I wouldn't necessarily expect empathy from JD. Baby/child-voracious wittering, certainly.

Of JD's three daughters, two have turned out to be hopeless mothers and one appears to have chosen not to be a mother at all.* It's interesting that, for a woman who has made her life out of being a mother, her children haven't turned out a bit better. I wonder if the less effort you put into rearing a child, the better they turn out?

Or maybe in JD's case, it's genetics. Ruari seems relatively OK so far.

Remember how worried she was that the incubator on legs might renege and deprive Dear Adam of what was his by rights? It was repulsive.

It was indeed repulsive Weevils. I just hope that when if she starts on about Marfa needing her mother that someone will remind her of that.

So Alice has admitted that she’s never wanted a baby. I wonder where this will go - both in the next 24 hours, and long term.

And it seems that Chris has finally understood the nature of addiction, suddenly.

I thought the mental health public information announcement was clunky and contrived

Yes, @Tulipomania - it was like an Open University doco from the 1970s. Or a bad HR training video. They both sounded so stilted.

JD would almost certainly have taken a different approach rather than hectoring Alice in that way. She dealt with Ruari and the Siobhan CD with such sensitivity and I think she would have taken the same approach with Alice - gently suggesting that she might stay a night or two with her, for instance. And may be promising not to tell Brian for now. The SLs rather underestimated her in that scene, I’m afraid.

I dunno ... Jenny takes a very different stance with Ruairi to how she behaves with her own children. With him she constantly tries to compensate for the hatred she felt for his mother, and for his loss of her. She's fairly indulgent with Adam - but her daughters ... She needs them to be everything she didn't get to be, and to avoid all the mis-steps she took before finding (more or less) safe haven at Home Farm. It's inconceivable to her that Alice might put Alice before motherhood, another daughter abandoning her children.

Poor Jenny, she probably thought she was done with being the subject of vicious village gossip and negotiating domestic turmoil.

My own mother certainly wouldn't have cried or pleaded with me. But the "stand up!" order would have been the precursor to marching me to Ambridge View to see my child.

I forgot to mention it earlier- it was entertaining but a bit chilling when Brian was telling Alice “I’ve been where you are”. You could tell he was proud of her for being a chip off the old block and making a pass at Harrison!

I'm looking forward to the moment the Jenny when turns to her own mother and finds out it was she who effectively gave Chris his marching orders. The fact that Chris is married an Aldridge definitely adds an extra layer to this particular storyline. Susan was once so proud that he was "marrying up" and Emma openly envious - she won't be able to resist stirring the pot. I'm wondering if Kate will be the one who persuades Alice to fight for Martha having abandoned first Phoebe and then Sipho and Nolli. Then no doubt the Ambridge fairy will be along to wave her wand and magic away Alice's alcoholism.

There is a guy behind the reception desk at our local leisure centre who looks exactly like Lee in my head! Should I suggest he takes up life modelling?!?

It does look like a Grandparental custody battle brewing. Alice won't do anything, and Chris might be extremely reluctant to take any formal action against his wife. I can quite see the Aldridges threatening legal action - if Neil doesn't act quickly and firmly enough to ameliorate the situation.

I actually found the scene between Elizabeth and Joy quite touching. I can well imagine that having a nice chat with the recruiter was just as good for Joy's mental health as talking to an actual counsellor.
The lack of unplanned social contact has been one of the worst things for my mental health in the last year. I have found myself making phone calls where I would previously have sent an email, just to have the opportunity to talk to someone.

The wailing, keening Jenny was insane.

They have made a total mess of this storyline which had a lot of potential. Bar Martha, I've lost sympathy for any of them.

@Taswama

I actually found the scene between Elizabeth and Joy quite touching. I can well imagine that having a nice chat with the recruiter was just as good for Joy's mental health as talking to an actual counsellor. The lack of unplanned social contact has been one of the worst things for my mental health in the last year. I have found myself making phone calls where I would previously have sent an email, just to have the opportunity to talk to someone.

I liked this scene too. Joy has become a far more likeable character recently. Sorry to hear you’ve had a hard time this past year Taswama.

The lack of unplanned social contact has been one of the worst things for my mental health in the last year.

When chatting to friends and family, I felt the need to downplay how lonely and despondent I felt in case they worried, or would panic whenever I didn't immediately reply. They had their own lockdown to worry about.

I found keeping in touch with former colleagues helped as they were in the same position and we could swap work-related ideas, and point out job opportunities.

So Alice has admitted that she’s never wanted a baby. Quite a contrast to "but I love her" before the Christening-that-never-was. But then I don't expect she knows where her thoughts are. At the moment she's unlike to feel the same five from one hour to the next.

The lack of unplanned social contact has been one of the worst things for my mental health in the last year. I have found myself making phone calls where I would previously have sent an email, just to have the opportunity to talk to someone. Yes. Our town used to be full of friendly folk who would stop to say a word. Now it's full of masked creatures whose expressions are hard to read. Zoom Committee meetings mean less travel, but also less chance to catch up with people before and after. I'm having more contact with friends (because I'm making sure to keep in touch with anyone who might be getting lonely - they're probably all fed up of me by now!) but I'm missing all that casual contact. And I'm an introvert!

felt the need to downplay how lonely and despondent... They had their own lockdown to worry about. Yeah. I know I'm one of the lucky ones. Doesn't stop me having been generally flat and unmotivated this winter ("languishing" rather than depressed) - but who hasn't felt like that?

Why is it an admission for a woman to say she has never wanted a baby? I know plenty of people who never have, and I don;t think it's a thing for them to feel guilty about and have to admit to.

From Alice it's an admission, as she's never said it out loud before. Alice is a people pleaser (if I understand this term correctly - I only know it from occasional lurking on the Relationships board here, to be frank). I think I am a bit that way myself. In Alice's case, if we credit the SWs with this much consistency and skill, it's realistic as all her life she's seen the effect on everyone in the family of having the self-centred Kate ruthlessly prioritising her own wants and needs above everybody else's.

She has never seemed particularly to want to please her parents; insisting on going to a college they disapproved of, walking out on them and deliberately hurting her mother for months because of something done by her father, marrying in secret, pretending to invite a criminal they very much disliked to the party they gave for her just in order to hurt her mother...

I don't think she even likes them. They are simply a useful source of money/a house/a job after she was no longer able to drink at her previous employment.

In fact, since it has been mostly Jennifer she has disliked, resented and mocked, it might just be that she knew that repudiating her baby was a way to hurt Jennifer more than she ever managed before.

@Taswama

I actually found the scene between Elizabeth and Joy quite touching. I can well imagine that having a nice chat with the recruiter was just as good for Joy's mental health as talking to an actual counsellor. The lack of unplanned social contact has been one of the worst things for my mental health in the last year. I have found myself making phone calls where I would previously have sent an email, just to have the opportunity to talk to someone.

I'm sorry that you've had tough lockdowns, Taswama. I remember commenting back in May-June that lockdown would be hellish over the Winter months. Little did we know....

Joy's discussion with Elizabeth reinforced my dislike of Kirsty. Admittedly Kirsty had quite a bit going on in January-March, but she should have kept checking in on her neighbour (who she now claims to like and will miss).

I rather think that Joy would have busied herself with a local food bank and helping out those who were shielding. Beechwood would have been a hive of neighbourliness.

I still can't fathom why Joy joined the cast. I do wonder whether she was to have a purpose that got buried in an editorial reshuffle or Covid. For the moment I'll settle for her becoming good friends with Elizabeth.