🐴 Archers thread 124: And they're off! Pip on a high horse, Kirsty champing at the bit to find the lost ‘horses’, Alice on the wagon (or is she riding for a fall?). Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Shula would make a brilliant vicar, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @PoulePouletteEternellement for the equine theme to the new thread title. I wanted to work in Rex being a dark horse and lots of others too, but (you may feel fortunately) there's a character limit for the title.

I wonder if this thread will see us through to the end of February. The last one filled up in under a month, which was like old times. All depends on what delights are in store for us in the coming weeks, I suppose. I'm hoping that Gavin has spilled the beans on Victoria, she's also arrested, and the lads are found. Having said that, I'm not confident that in the real world they would get the support and care they need to turn their lives around and get proper jobs. It was good to hear on the last thread from @Trickyboy, who has professional experience of investigating this vile crime. Any comments on how things turn out in the long run for those rescued?

In the scriptwriters’ medium term strategy meeting, all Zoom problems edited out for brevity.
SW1 - welcome to this planning meeting where we will set out the themes for some key storylines for the coming months. I know this is a departure from our usual week to week planning but let’s give it a go. The powers that be seem to think it’s a good idea. The young person will take minutes.
Intern - wait, what? We’re minuting this? Not just hoping everyone remembers what was said?
SW1 - yes, is that a problem?
SW6 - well actually...aren’t we worried that this will disrupt the essentially organic development of the plot which results from our disparate views?
SW1- if you mean your attempt to have Brian become a vegan then yes, I do hope it will stop the wilder excesses. Let’s take the slavery line first. Any ideas?
SW3 - I think we should go with Kirsty visiting Philip and continuing to search for the boys. He should give her some information to go on then she should be arrested approaching Victoria, who the police have under surveillance. Rebecca should write an article in the Echo with the headline “Loyal Wife Foiled in Attempt to Cover Slavemaster Husband’s Tracks”.
SW7 - Or it could turn out that Kirsty knew all along and uses a secret pile of used fivers to escape to Brazil where she buys a soybean farm.
SW1 - I think to be honest that SW3 has it. I don’t know how we’d deal with conversations in Spanish in Brazil.
Intern (muttering) - Portuguese
SW1- what about Alice?
SW3 - I think everything should bob along nicely until Alice goes into labour. Lull the listeners into a false sense of security, then kill Chris in an accident while she’s giving birth. That leaves Alice as a single mother with a possibly disabled baby and a drink problem. Emma can be her best friend. It’s a classic fall from grace.
SW1 - you have been thinking ahead SW3.
SW3 - doesn’t everyone?
SW1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 - no, not really.

I think there could be interesting conversations between Susan and Alice if they do go down the FAS baby route - especially if the baby is is visibly not normal. Susan had a tough time with Chris’ cleft lip and adjusting to any disability in your child can obviously be difficult. I just don’t have any faith that the SWs would do the storyline justice, sadly.

The bit that confused me though was “I love you Kirsty but...” Why would Shula love her? I’m trying to think if I’ve ever heard them speak to each other before - their worlds don’t really overlap in my mind.
Yes, that jarred with me, too. Especially after the previous conversation when she said to Neil - after knowing him well most of her life - "I hope we are friends".

Emma is such a brilliant character and actor. Oops, did I say that.

Oh Chemenger! That is delicious

Thanks CaptainMyCaptain and Gasp0de for insights into Johnny's position. It's not just the inheritance but Tony reminded us the other day that when he and Pat sold the land for Beechwood, they handed over responsibility for decisions about the farm to Tom and Helen. This has the potential to become a heated MN inheritance thread at the very least.

I can't actually remember how many weeks pregnant Alice is. The episode in which she collapsed and was rescued by Gavin is just something that happened last summer. I don't have a reference point for it as life seems to be all one big blur.

If they'd done it the other way around, it could have given rise to an interesting set of misunderstandings.

Shula to Kirsty: I hope we are friends.
Shula to Neil: I love you, Neil, but ...

(It was before my time as a listener, but I gather that many decades ago Neil had a crush on Shula, which was not reciprocated. )

Please pass on my continuing thanks to the intern, @Chemenger! Stalwart service, keeping us informed like that. Brian a vegan!

@Roysnewshirt

I can’t work it out- is Shula intentionally being portrayed as self-obsessed and a total pain to be around, who the listeners are meant to find tiresome? Or do the SLs really see her as a tortured soul simply trying to do good in the world, who we are intended to like and sympathise with?

If the former, then they are doing it very effectively; if the later then they are missing the spot entirely.

I'm wondering whether they're setting up situations where someone can tell her how lovely she is and how well-respected to try to wrench our perceptions around to believing that she actually could be a good vicar. If so, it's so clunky and it really isn't working.

I couldn't think why at no point during last night's conversation no-one suggested that the obvious thing to do, if they found out where the slaves are, would be to tell the police - rather than Kirsty doing some utterly insane attempt at single-handed rescue. Or maybe I can; it would be too sensible and would deprive the SWs of what they see as a splendidly dramatic storyline where Kirsty puts herself in massive danger and spends several more episodes angsting about it.

I find myself hoping Philip will catch on to what she's doing and deliberately give her misleading information that leaves her with egg all over her face.

If Alice is widowed then she could move in with Brian and Jennifer, if they bought a bigger house...like the one that will be for sale in Beechwood. Or better they could buy back Home Farm after the owners-who-are-never-mentioned are bankrupted by the pandemic or brexit or all die of COVID and are all found dead in the house months later like a gruesome scene from Survivors.

@C8H10N4O2

I am so impressed (yet again) by what a rounded character Emma is

I agree. Even when she is being unlikeable she is understandable. I feel the same about Susan, Lynda and Brian. I want to shake them all at times but their actions do at least seem in character and credible.

yes to all this. these characters are the most consistent as well. the ambridge personality change fairy rarely visits their houses.

I've just listened now, and sorry to pat myself on the back for being right yesterday, but it WAS a banger. From Emma coming up with something to get the playground being used again, to the scenes with her and Chris and Alice, and then Shula and Kirsty. I did laugh at Kirsty telling Shula to let her finish what she was saying before leaping in with her advice. And then laughed again as yet again, Shula had a go at someone for doing something she does herself all the time, ie getting over involved with some mad plan because of her own misplaced guilt. So little self awareness! that is exactly what the darrell thing was all about.

I'm sure there was some discussion about Johnny and inheritance, around the time he was starting his apprenticeship. I don't remember the details, what was decided, though. Or maybe it was around the time Peggy was doing her will and leaving Tony out.

It’s probably no coincidence that the Brian, Lynda, Emma and Susan actors seem to me to be more invested in their characters than many others- I wouldn’t be surprised if they have pushed back on storylines/lines that are out of character.

If Alice is widowed then she could move in with Brian and Jennifer, if they bought a bigger house...like the one that will be for sale in Beechwood

While the loss of Chris might be seen as a tragedy for Alice, I think she would soon get over it. She’s kind of outgrown him anyway. But I don’t see how Chris dying would resolve the alcoholic pregnancy/FAS baby SL. May be Alice will have the baby and then they all have an accident in the van on the way back from the hospital. The baby could fall out of the door which hasn’t closed properly (damaged when Chris hurt his hand) and he could be killed by a passing lorry while trying to rescue the baby. Alice would be left fighting for her life and would then move in with Jenny and Brian.

The main tragedy would obvs be Jenny having to move into the Beechwood house. No one would wish that on her...

All a bit grim- may be my imagination is running away with me...

@C8H10N4O2

setting us up for a day of utter tragedy when Alice gives birth.

Yes. Whilst the health fairy has magicked away a number of life long conditions in Ambridge I think the current " quick-fix recovery" for alcoholism would attract a lot of stick. They can't leave it there so presumably we are being set up for a stillbirth and relapse into drinking. I'd be surprised if its a live baby with severe damage as they have wimped out of disability stories in the past.

I'm not sure how much stick it would actually get: Kenton was putting away the booze like a good'un (retiring upstairs with a full bottle of whisky) when his having spent money he didn't have on taking a long holiday meant the pub might have to close, but his incipient alcoholism was instantly cured when his family "lent" him £26,000 and bailed him out as they always do. Nobody seems to have been particularly upset about that. And Julia being saved from her addiction to the bottle more-or-less off-stage in a matter of months passed without censure, too.

The baby could fall out of the door which hasn’t closed properly (damaged when Chris hurt his hand) and he could be killed by a passing lorry while trying to rescue the baby. Alice would be left fighting for her life and would then move in with Jenny and Brian.

Bloody hell that is horrific @Roysnewshirt. No thank you.

I am now imagining olympic level shagger Brian living in beechwood next door to lonely singleton Joy, please make this happen SWs, there must be life in the old dog yet.

Bloody hell, Roysnewshirt, the inside of your head is a cesspit of misery!

I also don't understand why Shula was declaring love for Kirsty. It's not her usual way of speaking at all, and they're not even friends. Tbh, given that she didn't know Shula had already visited Philip, I find it somewhat unlikely that Kirsty would have gone to her for help. Shula isn't yet an official religious in the village. Kirsty is far more likely to have chosen Jill, who she is friendly with.

@HaveringWavering

It’s probably no coincidence that the Brian, Lynda, Emma and Susan actors seem to me to be more invested in their characters than many others- I wouldn’t be surprised if they have pushed back on storylines/lines that are out of character.

I'd be surprised if Brian has, because Charles Collingwood made it clear in his autobiography that he had no say at all about what happened to his character Brian having a history of affairs came as a complete surprise to him, for instance, and was only brought to his awareness by Shula saying that Brian was "up to his old tricks" he was in ignorance of any such behaviour until that precise moment.

June Spencer too has made it clear that she doesn't have an input into what happens to Peggy.

If those two old-timers have so little power to intervene for their characters, what chance has a new-comer like Emerald O'Hanrahan after only ten years in the part?

(Let it be stated, I had not seen Havering's response while laboriously writing mine !)

It seems such a shame the SWs introduced Joy as someone so needy, comical and consequently unattractive. It would be impossible for me to believe, now, that she might ever have a village based relationship. So she's kind of a narrative dead end.

I'm not sure how much stick it would actually get: Kenton was putting away the booze like a good'un (retiring upstairs with a full bottle of whisky) when his having spent money he didn't have on taking a long holiday meant the pub might have to close, but his incipient alcoholism was instantly cured when his family "lent" him £26,000 and bailed him out as they always do. Nobody seems to have been particularly upset about that. And Julia being saved from her addiction to the bottle more-or-less off-stage in a matter of months passed without censure, too.

but those alcoholics were only hurting their own health. it is a truth universally acknowledged that TASWAMA, and pregnant women are public property, there is not a single chance that there wouldn't be some sort of backlash if they didn't show severe consequences to drinking while pg, especially to the extent Alice was putting it away. we have a really weird attitude to alcohol in this country, drinking to excess is seen as quite normal and funny, to the point where we have a culture where it is considered ok behaviour by many to press alcohol on someone who has declined it without 'good reason' (and we'll see this in action no doubt once Alice is no longer pg, in fact she's done it herself to Pip iirc), but that all changes when the person in question is a pregnant woman.

nettie434
I can't actually remember how many weeks pregnant Alice is. The episode in which she collapsed and was rescued by Gavin is just something that happened last summer. I don't have a reference point for it as life seems to be all one big blur.

Gavin found Alice passed out drunk by the road on 15th September, 2020.

When she had her first appointment with a midwife (the one at which Chris kept answering everything for her) she and the midwife agreed that Alice was "bang on twelve weeks" pregnant. That was on 6th October, 2020.

Someone else can count from there, because I am never sure whether the two weeks of Schrödinger's pregnancy is counted into that twelve or not.

I knew that AAQATT would come up with the goods. that makes Alice around 30 weeks now

I'm surprised we didn't hear much from them around the time of the 20 week scan, surely they would have been on red alert for anomalies, and JD and/or Susan would have been mithering at them to find out the sex etc.

sorry, idk why I've given you an extra A in your acronym Asking. It's probably an A for consistent services to continuity.

@MadameButterface

sorry, idk why I've given you an extra A in your acronym Asking. It's probably an A for consistent services to continuity.

AlwaysAskingQuestionsAllTheTime?

AssertivelyAskingQuestionsAllTheTime

AnsweringArchersQuestionsAllTheTime

AllArchersQuestionsAnsweredTrulyThus