🍾 Archers thread 123: Goodbye & good riddance to 2020 – to Philip too? The Archers is 70 on New Year’s Day – celebrate or vent about it here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you wish we heard more from Shula, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

So! 2021 beckons. Big anniversary next Friday, 1.1.21 (and to mark that we have episodes Tuesday-Friday next week). What would we like to see happen? I may be in a minority of one, but I'd like a nice gentle character-driven episode. I don't think we'll get that, but I really, really hope they don't kill someone else off, just for the headlines.

[Title edited by MNHQ at OP'S request]

Just popping up to agree with Chemenger. I am about 50 years younger than Jim and I had 5 years of Latin at an independent school. My lovely Mum has far more Latin than me from her time at a girls' grammar in the 60's. I can definitely believe Jim would know some.

Although his relationship with Tracey is a little implausible, I would love it if Jazzer became a dad.

1 ONS and Tracy will be upduffed. It's how it is in soaps.

I had six years of Latin and four years of Greek at a direct grant school in the 1970s, followed by a Classics degree, with input from the Ancient Historians in the History Department, which is why I'm so sure they all had a good grounding in Latin and usually Greek as well. I haven't made any real effort to keep my Classics up, but I could certainly have a crack at the Greek New Testament, not least because I'm familiar with the English version. Plato might present more difficulties, for a number of reasons (I loathed Philosophy).

My friends who did Latin to O level (four years in total) and then dropped it would struggle now to translate anything more than puella est in horto. A lot of them got through the O level by rote learning the translation of the set text and hoping for the best.

By contrast, my Mum went to her local state school in Scotland back in the 1940s and took Latin as one of her Highers subjects, along with English, French and German. I think she'd have had about five or six years of French, four or five of Latin, maybe four of German at school, no chance of university study unfortunately. Her memory of all those languages is astounding, and she's now in her late 80s. The intensive study in the sixth form or ab initio* at university makes a huge difference to how well the language is learned and remembered in later years.

*sorry

I am mid-'50s. I did O'Level Latin at school, and won a prize for declamation.

Although I was good at it, I would certainly struggle to translate any long pieces of text now.

Although I have found it invaluable for general comprehension in later life, as I am continously (and tediously no doubt) telling my children, who dropped it at school (private) as soon as it was allowed.

Et odisti Pip

I did Higher Latin in the 80s (state school), got an A and I can still decline puella, servus (we were taught to say it “serWus”), baculum and nomen. I’m not sure I could translate much now but it was good mental discipline at the time.

I only did two years of Latin, but like many of my friends I can still remember the first sentences of Ecce Romani. “In pictura est puella” and so forth. The head of Latin at my school was par of the group who wrote those textbooks.

I did two years of Latin at grammar school starting in 1966. We didn't do rote learning as our Latin master was quite modern so we used to write funny stories. I can't remember a great deal now but I think it has helped in my understanding of words in English and other European languages. I was quite good at it but gave it up to do Art which was probably a mistake but hey ho.

@Chemenger

I only did two years of Latin, but like many of my friends I can still remember the first sentences of Ecce Romani. “In pictura est puella” and so forth. The head of Latin at my school was par of the group who wrote those textbooks.

I seem to recall an accident with a cart falling in a ditch -in fossa cadit or something?

Yes, they spent chapters and chapters trahunting that bloody raedam ex fossa.
(Latin A-level. Though Ecce Romani was mostly pre-GCSE.)

My phone really doesn't like Latin...

Raedam in fossa est! Another unforgettable phrase that I have never found a use for...until now.

We finished Ecce Romani and went on to Fabulae Faciles which were anything but faciles. Probably haven’t spelled that correctly. I gave up Latin in third year and did tech subjects instead.

Coming back to the topic I'm feeling very unconvinced about the Philip story. As presented, Kirsty insisted that he go out and speak to the police, who had been called to an apparent domestic. Meanwhile, Kirsty stayed indoors. We heard Philip say "I'm Philip Moss, I'm who you're looking for", but what happened next? Are we really expecting him to have said "but I haven't assaulted my wife, I've been running a slave operation". If not, then what did he say?

I have two ideas of what he did say.

1. "I've just had a devastating shock. My son Gavin was in charge of our workforce and I've just discovered he's been pocketing their wages and not paying them"

or, following his re-appearance, I wondered if what he said to the police was:

2. "My wife's got the wrong end of the stick. I'm helping three homeless lads, I'm paying for a flat for them and feeding them and providing all they need, and I'm training them up so they have a trade. But she's completely misunderstood all this"

But then we don't know what Kirsty told the police in interview - although we can have a pretty good guess.

Me odisti Pip 😂 (another Latinist, wanted to do A level but they couldn't provide it at my 80s comp. Slipped into some Cambridge Classics lectures though)

A vaguely funny tale at my husband’s expense! He was teaching Latin (and some Greek) some years ago, as a supply teacher, and was moaning about his dislike of Ecce Romani (and stated his preference for the Cambridge Latin course) to the head of dept.. Only later did he realise 5he other guy was one of the authors. Oops! I’m afraid my Latin has never got beyond Ecce Romani level - did O as a crash course. As I did French as part of my first degree it was useful but I didn’t actually need it as an entry requirement which was the case at some unis back then.

Just wondering what age Tracey mifght be? I’m sure somebody has the knowledge at their fingertips!

Tracy was born on 16th July, 1975.

So jazzer is meant to be 35??? I don't believe it

Female ambridgian aged 45 is a prime candidate for a surprise pregnancy.

At 39, Cursedy is also a prime candidate. Maybe a little Rosty not a Philsty.

But then we don't know what Kirsty told the police in interview - although we can have a pretty good guess. Yes, it would have been obvious to Philip that they would speak to her even if they thought it was "a domestic" so he knew he wouldn't get away with not saying anything. So presumably he got his story in first. Just wondering what "his story" was.

Anyway, bowing to the inevitable - I did Latin O-level (none of this Ecce Romani stuff - we learned from Civis (Keewis ) Romanus and Mentor - two books straight out of the 1930s. Yes, it's great for vocabulary, and also great for grammar if you're learning a language that hasn't degraded all its verbs into a couple of forms like English has. But its greatest use to me is in botany - names like Rhytidiadelphus and quinqueflora just trip off the tongue.

Otherwise, I no longer have functional Latin, apart from anything else, in neither French nor Latin can I remember anything other than the present tense. Or rather, I can remember, but I haven't a clue which is which. But I love the logic and preciseness of Latin. There would be no doubt in Latin over "Fruit flies like jam".

CodenameVillanelle
So jazzer is meant to be 35??? I don't believe it

Jazzer was in the same year at school as Ed Grundy, who was born on 28th September, 1984.

He just comes across as a Middle Aged lech most of the time to me

Codename does that signal that you weren't listening when he first came to Ambridge? I always think of him how he was then really and am shocked to learn of his actual age.

Tracey is being a cougar!

@JanuaryChill

Codename does that signal that you weren't listening when he first came to Ambridge? I always think of him how he was then really and am shocked to learn of his actual age.

No! I used to hate the archers as my mum listened to it and when I turned around 35 I basically turned into my mum and started listening to it