🍾 Archers thread 123: Goodbye & good riddance to 2020 – to Philip too? The Archers is 70 on New Year’s Day – celebrate or vent about it here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you wish we heard more from Shula, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

So! 2021 beckons. Big anniversary next Friday, 1.1.21 (and to mark that we have episodes Tuesday-Friday next week). What would we like to see happen? I may be in a minority of one, but I'd like a nice gentle character-driven episode. I don't think we'll get that, but I really, really hope they don't kill someone else off, just for the headlines.

[Title edited by MNHQ at OP'S request]

Have I missed something or are the police simply relying on Kirsty's word that something is/was amiss with Philip's building company? All the work he did in Ambridge was "mates rates".

He has a "legit" set of books and he let his lads go at Christmas as business had dried up.

The Borsetshire police force are going on Kirsty's statement to them alone.

Sgt Third-Degree ByTheBook Burns is much needed on the investigation.

Is anyone else thinking Kirsty is going to bump into Philip at the homeless shelter?

Tanners the blabbermouth "hard cop" told Neil that they had evidence from all over the county while she appeared to be trying to stitch him up in some way. It was in one of her "I hate slavery" rants, near the start of the episode.

Two questions really:

1] does anyone actually approve of modern slavery, here or in Ambridge? (my guess is no)

2] is anyone in Ambridge going to wait to hear actual evidence about this case rather than hearsay, innuendo, or portentious gossip from the vicar before assuming that Philip is guilty as (we don't know if he has been yet) charged? (my guess is no)

I like the insights about the courses available at Stirling CheetahsOnFajitas. Even if there's nothing for him to teach, I can imagine Jim liking the campus and the city itself.

Thanks for sorting out all those members of the Borsetshire police force Asking. None of the police (Harrison included) seem remotely good at their job. Borsetshire must be very low in the national crime clear up rates.

I wonder where Gavin is....

Lost you all! Place marking

is anyone in Ambridge going to wait to hear actual evidence ... before assuming that Philip is guilty
Let's not forget that he has admitted to causing serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, its inhabitants (not least La Snell MBE) and their livelihoods. I wouldn't be feeling generous in my presumptions.

Are we actually allowed to say 'it doesnt matter it's just a radio programme' on this thread

This thread is filling up fast! I don't think it'll see January out at this rate. Great work, all. Start thinking of title suggestions, if you're so minded.

If the police followed up all Philip's jobs for the last few years and looked at his prices compared with the going rate, that would be pretty conclusive evidence that something was amiss. The odd job here and there at mates' rates to oblige a friend or neighbour, or cost price for a community project - fine, all good PR or a sign of a generous nature from someone generally doing well in business. But as the sergeant pointed out to Neil, if every single job is coming in well below the going rate, how was he making a living, and a good living at that?

I find it perfectly credible that the various people in Ambridge who used Philip's firm all assumed that he was being nice to them and must be charging others more - or at least it was convenient to take that at face value and not think harder about it. He was doing bigger jobs elsewhere, after all. Justin knew he was getting a very low rate, hardly above cost, but accepted that was because Philip and Gavin were desperate for work and willing to do anything just to get back in the game.

Are we actually allowed to say 'it doesn't matter it's just a radio programme' on this thread?
Wash your mouth out!

Actually, the more factually inaccurate they are, the more I find myself saying it. It's all about lack of suspension of disbelief, isn't it.

Lots of individuals wouldn't know the true cost / going rate if they hadn't bothered to get 3 quotes, just asked Philip and thought it was an affordable price. A businessman like Justin has no excuse however.

@Langsdestiny

Are we actually allowed to say 'it doesnt matter it's just a radio programme' on this thread

No

Although we can make points which are about the acting, the storyline etc, which tacitly admits it is a radio programme.

And we can make points about the characters and plots which tacitly suspends belief to assume that Anbridge "exists". Then it's a bit like gossiping.

R4
"is anyone in Ambridge going to wait to hear actual evidence ... before assuming that Philip is guilty"
Let's not forget that he has admitted to causing serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, its inhabitants (not least La Snell MBE) and their livelihoods. I wouldn't be feeling generous in my presumptions.

Has he? When was that? To whom? (And indeed, apart from la Snell, how has he?)

@Langsdestiny

Are we actually allowed to say 'it doesnt matter it's just a radio programme' on this thread

Ha ha, that was me who said that . I think I was bracing myself for criticism of what might have appeared to be obsessive nit picking about Stirling University. And you are right @nettie434, the town would indeed be right up Jim’s street, only a stone’s throw from the Antonine wall too. I’m amazed that they put him in the website though!

I will be more careful with what I say in future

I once pointed out that there was a possibility that most people werent quite as interested in the intricate plot details of TA as we were, shocking stuff .
Jim doesnt like CMR either does he, presumably also linked to exploitation of young people, or was it just because CMR is an insufferable arse.

We should not be apologetic about our concerns with plot details. The Radio 4 programme More or Less did a few calculations when Nigel fell from the roof:

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/2011/01/calculating_the_height_of_loxley_hall.html

If it's good enough for a respected Radio 4 programme, it's good enough for us!

Personally, I don't worry about detail like that but I do expect better standards when events in Ambridge concern something in the public interest. We all know that it is unwise to climb on an icy roof at night so we don't need information on the precise height at which the probability of a nasty accident turns into the likelihood of a fatal one. However, I felt that Helen's trial and conviction crossed a line between a portrayal of coercive control and soap opera suspension of disbelief. I remember reading a tweet from the former MP and barrister Anna Soubry saying that in her experience a woman with two young children and no previous convictions (thanks to Tom) would not have been given a custodial sentence. I wondered if there were any listeners experiencing domestic abuse who would have felt there was no point in going to the police.

I think the current modern slavery plot has been handled much better and was impressed that a poster here was able to confirm its accuracy.

Has he? When was that? To whom? (And indeed, apart from la Snell, how has he?)
Not getting you. Philip's firm blew up GG. It might have been due to his staff on site (or not, in the case of Gavin) but the buck stops at the top.
I don't understand why the HSE hasn't tried to prosecute Philip.

R4, you wrote

"Let's not forget that he has admitted to causing serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, its inhabitants (not least La Snell MBE) and their livelihoods. I wouldn't be feeling generous in my presumptions."
(my emphasis)

So I asked whether Philip has in fact admitted any of this, and when and to whom he did so? And indeed, how does the destruction of the kitchen of a hotel on its outskirts cause serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, or to any of its inhabitants apart from La Snell? Because it seems to me that it didn't particularly, apart from Lynda's injuries.

I do find the lack of reaction from HSE weird and inexplicable, though I think we have heard Philip quite recently mention that he was waiting for "the report", which might be theirs but goodness, they've taken their time over it.

That's cos of COVID innit.

I asked whether Philip has in fact admitted any of this, and when and to whom he did so? And indeed, how does the destruction of the kitchen of a hotel on its outskirts cause serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, or to any of its inhabitants apart from La Snell?
I thought that it was pretty firmly established that Philip's firm caused the explosion. As major owner / shareholder / director, he is responsible.
I think that GG counts as part of the historical fabric of Ambridge. It won't have just been damage to the kitchen, there will have been - at the very least - smoke and water damage, too.
Lots suffered apart from Lynda: Roy got a gash to the head, Freddie got smoke-inhalation and PTSD, several others on duty were fairly traumatised.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

R4, you wrote

"Let's not forget that he has admitted to causing serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, its inhabitants (not least La Snell MBE) and their livelihoods. I wouldn't be feeling generous in my presumptions."
(my emphasis)

So I asked whether Philip has in fact admitted any of this, and when and to whom he did so? And indeed, how does the destruction of the kitchen of a hotel on its outskirts cause serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, or to any of its inhabitants apart from La Snell? Because it seems to me that it didn't particularly, apart from Lynda's injuries.

I do find the lack of reaction from HSE weird and inexplicable, though I think we have heard Philip quite recently mention that he was waiting for "the report", which might be theirs but goodness, they've taken their time over it.

My brother was paralysed in a work accident in April 2018. The HSE only confirmed three months ago that they were going to prosecute his employer.

@R4

I asked whether Philip has in fact admitted any of this, and when and to whom he did so? And indeed, how does the destruction of the kitchen of a hotel on its outskirts cause serious harm to the fabric of Ambridge, or to any of its inhabitants apart from La Snell? I thought that it was pretty firmly established that Philip's firm caused the explosion. As major owner / shareholder / director, he is responsible. I think that GG counts as part of the historical fabric of Ambridge. It won't have just been damage to the kitchen, there will have been - at the very least - smoke and water damage, too. Lots suffered apart from Lynda: Roy got a gash to the head, Freddie got smoke-inhalation and PTSD, several others on duty were fairly traumatised.

And quite a few must have been put out of work.

CheetasOnFajitas
My brother was paralysed in a work accident in April 2018. The HSE only confirmed three months ago that they were going to prosecute his employer.

That's awful! Is there any chance of improvement, or is he permanently paralysed? I hope he is ok in the end, if he isn't already.

In Ambridge the rule seems to be, "accident at work, HSE enquiry within a month or two" as it was with Nigel. I seem to remember that enquiry had to have happened before the inquest was held, and I know the inquest was at the end of March.

My brother was paralysed in a work accident in April 2018. The HSE only confirmed three months ago that they were going to prosecute his employer.
I'm sorry to hear that.

One of my client's had a to-do with HSE. He was majorly stressed by the whole thing, not least the uncertainty of it (would he get prosecuted or not) and how it dragged on and on. All this on top of the trauma of the actual accident (the employee was also a friend) and the countless "what-ifs" going through his head. He had a heart attack at one stage.

Jim doesnt like CMR either does he, presumably also linked to exploitation of young people, or was it just because CMR is an insufferable arse