🍾 Archers thread 123: Goodbye & good riddance to 2020 – to Philip too? The Archers is 70 on New Year’s Day – celebrate or vent about it here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you wish we heard more from Shula, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

So! 2021 beckons. Big anniversary next Friday, 1.1.21 (and to mark that we have episodes Tuesday-Friday next week). What would we like to see happen? I may be in a minority of one, but I'd like a nice gentle character-driven episode. I don't think we'll get that, but I really, really hope they don't kill someone else off, just for the headlines.

[Title edited by MNHQ at OP'S request]

@UntamedWisteria

I was wondering whether the plot with Philip/Kirsty/horses would follow a redemption theme?

Just got that sense when he came out to face the police & said "I'm the man you're looking for..."

I thought this too. Kirsty will then have to decide whether or not to stay with him.

Welcome to @Trickyboy and welcome back @DadDadDad! Compliments of the season to you

Less unusually, people whose partner has been unfaithful often seem to cite the lack of honesty as much worse than the actual infidelity, because it leaves them doubting everything.

The thought that he got a kick out of lying to me, and the wondering how long for, was far worse than the beating he gave me when I found out. Years of my life thinking I was happy wiped out in an instant, I didn't know him at all.

It's interesting because so far we haven't seen any sign that Philip knows what he did was wrong. He's not stupid, when and how will this come? When he realises he can't wiggle out of it maybe?

"He that complies against his Will,
Is of his own Opinion still;
Which he may adhere to, yet disown,
For Reasons to himself best known."

That's as true now as it was when Samuel Butler wrote it in the 1660s.

I'm so sorry, @GotBeatenUp. I hope things are better now.

Thanks @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g. Philip being arrested brought back some memories.
Vince's ingratiating himself with Elizabeth's family brought back memories.
Like Helen, I am brittle, so it was all 'my fault'.

I hope you have a much happier life now, GotBeatenUp.

Welcome back DadDadDad.

And thank you Trickyboy. It must be difficult to switch off from a job like that; but it must be satisfying when justice is done.

Presumably the police would need to find the three slaves to have a successful case against Philip? I'd imagine that they wouldn't be easy to track down (especially if it made the news that somebody had been arrested)?

Roll on Friday (when presumably something dramatic is going to happen)!

I wonder if Phillip will turn nasty (although will he be in a cell by then?) with Kirsty and Helen will rescue her in a perfect role reversal.

being made a fool of -which Kirsty will be feeling in spades
But she is a fool. High time she noticed the fact.

But she is a fool. High time she noticed the fact.

Higher powers, Three, higher powers. If she were mistress of her own fate I'm sure she wouldn't be such a magnet for humiliation and disaster. (Though I manage the same without the benefit of any script.)

"Owing to circumstances beyond her control, she is master of her fate and captain of her soul."

No idea where I found that, some time in the early seventies.... Anyone got any idea?

It's a version of Invictus, but I'm not sure where from.

That's really interesting insight @Trickyboy. Are you part of a government body or a charity working against modern slavery?

I think it is standing Invictus on its head, really: the first phrase rather negates the second.

Really searching and searching for it in my memory, I have a feeling it may have been on a postcard, with a line-drawing of an Old Sea Salt in a sou'wester and with a telescope standing at the wheel of a sailing ship, possibly cod-fishing or some such. This would explain why looking in the internet doesn't find it.

As a newbie, can I just jump in?
Love TA, think this is a great storyline. I do think though, that while Phillip knows it is wrong legally, and acknowledges that other people may have moral issues with it, he is doing nothing wrong.
He is taking poor, starving homeless kids and giving them a trade, food in their bellies and a warm place to sleep. I think he almost believes he is doing a fair job that no one else understands.
This is so believeable. The SWs have done a fab job in not making him a pantomime villain.
I think Gavin will disappear, turning up in a few years time to terrorise Kirsty 😁

I hope it works out for Kirsty whatever happens. Maybe Gavin will convince the police she wasn’t involved.

@Ratched he can't honestly think it's morally justified to sell them on though.

@CaptainMyCaptain, i bet he could, in his own twisted way.
Had he not passed them on, getting some return on his investment, they would have been back on the streets again, with no one to protect them.
He was ensuring their safety.
He does not see himself as a bad man 😏

Welcome, @Ratched! I agree Philip has probably closed his mind to the full horror of what he's been doing. Most interesting to hear from @Trickyboy that so far this has been a realistic storyline. I hope they don't drop the ball now.

No episode tonight.

I think he almost believes he is doing a fair job that no one else understands

Welcome @Ratched!

I think the emphasis has to be on almost. Philip knows what he is doing is wrong hence his reason for secrecy and the need to tell whopping lies eg about Gav’s gambling. He wanted to put this bad behaviour behind him and turn over a new leaf only because he knew it wrong and Kirsty would find it abhorrent.

The SWs have done a great job with this as a slow-burn story though the moment of reveal was definitely compromised by COVID.

Poor Kirsty will never get over that dreadful toe-curling feeling you get when you cant’t believe that you have been so stupid and blind.

Here is the Invictus wiki page (complete with poem and picture):

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invictus

I've noticed that some relatively intelligent/comfortably off people go through life making a series of unfortunate decisions and spend half their life lurching from crisis to crisis. Kirsty is firmly in their ranks.

Belated Christmas greetings to everyone. Thanks Gasp0de for the new thread.

I would love to know Gavin's mum's views on Phillip. Phillip presented the end of his marriage to Kirsty as mostly due to the effects of his financial problems but it would be interesting to know if there was anything else. Would she have observed Phillip bullying Gavin? It's certainly being presented as something that has always happened - even though I mutter quietly that when Gavin first arrived, he seemed to be the one in charge - asking for money for the wedding, moving in etc.

Anyway, hoping for more clarity this week. I also heard a trailer for the The Archers 70th Anniversary Quiz. It's on at 7.15 on Friday after The Big Episode. There are two teams - Radio 4 presenters v Fans. Apparently we will even be able to download our own score sheet to play along! Somebody mentioned they'd like a The Archers quiz a few weeks ago so this might fit the bill.

Re The Big Episode..is there going to be an incident of some sort do we know? I thought they might have saved Kirsty Finds Out for that, so is there something else lined up?

I've noticed that some relatively intelligent/comfortably off people go through life making a series of unfortunate decisions and spend half their life lurching from crisis to crisis. Kirsty is firmly in their ranks

Is Kirsty comfortably off? She has never held highly paid jobs and I didn't think she had family money. It was Tom who called off the wedding, after stringing Kirsty along until the last minute. Philip had the whole village fooled and in his case there was noone in the village who had seen the dark side and colluded with him to keep it quiet (as there was wiith Rob).