🎄Archers thread #122: Deck the Hall with Eddie, Freddie 🎵 'Tis the Season to be jolly (but orange juice for you, Alice)

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you love Bert Fry’s poetry (as I do), or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @C8H10N4O2 for requesting an annoyingly cheerful thread title which might take us up to Christmas and to @Prestissimo for the title suggestion. I was strongly tempted by @LillianGish’s suggestion: Eddie’s turkeys, Freddie’s show, village green with lights aglow, Stir Up Sunday, Deck the Hall, Merry Christmas one and all - with apologies to Bert Fry and @R4’s suggestion Wassail to the Ambridge Not-A-Panto where Freddie gets nine LESSONS in directing from CAROLe Lynda. Top work, all!

Three days to go until we can return to Ambridge.

My list for Father Christmas

In the next few weeks I’d like:

• Freddie’s show to be a huge success

• Philip and Gavin to be driven out of the village with pitchforks into the waiting arms of the police, and the three ‘horses’ rescued and taken in by kind people who will help them turn their lives around

• Pip to take a perpetual vow of silence and leave for a nunnery

• a terrific Grundy Christmas (although the travails of Alice and Chris will overshadow things)

• Alice to lose the baby, as this seems the least grim option for us listeners; she leaves Chris and makes a fresh start of some kind

What do you all want for Christmas from The Archers?

My brain refused to process the stuff about Eddie's turkeys yesterday, especially as it was out of kilter with Covid.

It also refused to process today's episode properly. Philip said the building business has been keeping them afloat so once again I wonder what they are going to live on. The scenes with Blake and the others were just plain weird.

Will Blake take a card for Philip round to P and K's house when only K is there?

I'm not ben, by the way. I really should proof read more! I think I mean I've been ... but who knows.

Thank you Esse

Ben xx

The card will be the catalyst for the denouement, I feel sure

I still don't think Philip is truly evil (just the helpless victim of a character transplant). He's convinced himself he's doing the right thing by the horses and he really does love Kirsty. He's one of those people who really can compartmentalise.

No matter, it's all going to end in tears.

it was an interesting article in the Guardian but annoying that they said it was Jude's siblings that were killed, it was his children.

re the slaves, I think tonight we saw how effectively Philip has gaslighted them- they were obviously very vulnerable when he ? ensnared them- they have little life experience and very low self esteem, plus seemingly some learning disability. Its completely tragic. I'm surprised we haven't had more 'if you've been affected by...' messages at the end of the programme. I went to a talk by a police officer once who worked with victims of modern slavery. He said that there is no town or village in the country that is not effected by modern slavery. That means we all have a chance of coming across an enslaved person in our daily life. Some pointing in the direction of advice would be good.

@PoulePouletteEternellement

Justin's company bought the land. I've no idea who developed it, etc - but it makes no difference - whoever profits financially if she buys one of the houses, she would be funding that profit, entirely needlessly.

No she wouldn't. Justin bought the land. Either his company developed it and sold houses to the buyers or his company sold it to a developer who sold the houses. Justin's company has no interest whatsoever in the re- sale of houses.

Agreed, but Philip doesn't see himself that way, I don't think.

I'm surprised we haven't had more 'if you've been affected by...' messages at the end of the programme
Vulnerable young people with learning difficulties are probably not the demographic that listenens to the Archers but there was a mention of how to spot people who may be victims of modern slavery.

ah, was there, that's good I missed it

Some pointing in the direction of advice would be good.
Philip and Gavin have done a little package.

I don't think that SOC came out well from that Guardian piece. Every time he was mentioned it seemed to be saying "he lifted XXX storyline from YYY book". It sounded like he hadn't got an original idea of his own.

@CaptainMyCaptain

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/dec/15/the-archers-weird-genius-peculiarly-english-epic

Quite a long read. Interesting to learn about the story that didn't happen.

Thank you so much for that article @CaptainMyCaptain

Fascinating!

Oh today's episode. It was simultaneously unbelievable (the 'horses' overly-earnest conversations) & heart-breaking ('shall we get them a present?' 😥)

And ... what was the story with the closing sig tune? I listen to the podcast (am in Ireland)

Yes @EarringsandLipstick I thought the two story lines between can we afford to get him a card for all his kindness vs the goats cheese, walnut and pear tartines (wasn't sure what they were - tarte tatin?) was beautifully done. Kirsty's accidental over scoffing and regret can I'll just get something at the garage. He never intended for his posh food to make it to the horses, all a show for Kirsty. But if she really looked she'd see... (something from the garage would make me think, 'eh?' Not because there's anything wrong with it but the two don't marry).

FF was not "swept to her death"; she was trapped in her car by the flood-waters, rescued and taken to hospital, where she died considerably later the day before she was supposed to be coming home of a heart attack
oh, don't be so purist about this. It was clearly an homage: water and - at a decent interval - a corpse (female). What more do you want? Cohesive, sustained narrative? Feck off. O'Connor was an appalling hiring decision who did this moribund little soap no favours. Although Helen finding she was not as good at controlling as someone else was was fun.

For full disclosure and in the interests of transparency, I have read JtO, a second time, for shits and giggles. It is just so silly. But I judge dressing-gown belts by it.

@cameocat

Yes *@EarringsandLipstick* I thought the two story lines between can we afford to get him a card for all his kindness vs the goats cheese, walnut and pear tartines (wasn't sure what they were - tarte tatin?) was beautifully done. Kirsty's accidental over scoffing and regret can I'll just get something at the garage. He never intended for his posh food to make it to the horses, all a show for Kirsty. But if she really looked she'd see... (something from the garage would make me think, 'eh?' Not because there's anything wrong with it but the two don't marry).

Agreed. I thought the contrast between the 2 stories was excellent. I also think the conversation amongst the horses was sadly all too believable.

was an interesting article in the Guardian but annoying that they said it was Jude's siblings that were killed, it was his children

It was Jude's son , also Jude (aka Little Father Time) and his siblings who were hanged by Jude jnr. The killing of the ferrets did remind me of that.

Do Blake and co actually have learning difficulties, or just a lack of learning through haphazard, dysfunctional upbringing with lots of missed school? So part of the way Philip keeps them in control is just because they're so ignorant of large areas of life. They think he's saved them from the streets and taught them a trade while giving them food and housing. There's a bit of truth in that, but as they have no idea of their rights, they've no way of exploring the whole picture and how things could be different, other than the one alternative they have already experienced, being on the streets.

Philip also sees himself as their saviour, and while he recognises that others would see it as slavery he's convinced himself that the law isn't quite right on this (the law can certainly be wrong in some cases, though most of us would probably disagree with him on this one.) He has had to convince himself of his philanthropic motivations to live with himself, and things like fixing the playground are to address the balance of good and bad. I think he wants to be honest, and the man Kirsty thinks he is, but we have seen he can also be quite ruthless and lie and focus just on the money, and she won't forgive that when she finds out.

Exactly, EBearhug!

He has had to convince himself of his philanthropic motivations to live with himself, and things like fixing the playground are to address the balance of good and bad. I think he wants to be honest, and the man Kirsty thinks he is
He is deeply flawed. Not only has he preyed on the horses' weaknesses and deliberately kept them weak, but he has also done a similar number on Gavin. The scheme only works as long as someone competent keeps the plates spinning. The moment he left weak Gavin in charge of an even weaker horse it went horribly wrong (the kitchen fire).
Having unskilled workers is a very short-term strategy. I'm surprised that Philip made it this far! Does it explain how Philip blew into Ambridge as an unknown? - he was fleeing the latest time (one of a long line) it all went pear-shape and he was re-inventing himself.

There's going to be an interview with a cast member on BBC Morning Live today. I'll be doing my zoom pilates class so I'll miss it. I hope one of you can report back.

I thought the two story lines between can we afford to get him a card for all his kindness vs the goats cheese, walnut and pear tartines (wasn't sure what they were - tarte tatin?) was beautifully done

I’m afraid I thought it was a bit clunky and the contrast was not exactly subtle. But I was willing to overlook it as the episode ended up being slightly baffling all round. Why have the SLs only now given the horses a proper voice? I was fine with them being (virtually) silent and would have been fine with them being fully-developed characters but why give them a voice at this late stage? I’m just not sure that’s good writing. Mrs Two-Bins has potential as a plot line, even if the guys never actually speak to her too. In fact she could have helped illustrated how people living in slavery are often living in plain sight.

Anyway, very happy the story is gradually reaching its climax. Those tartlettes are going to leave rather a bitter taste in poor Kirsty’s mouth...

Re Justin’s involvement in the Beechwopd property development- wasn’t there a weird scene when he and Emma went to the site of the house she was hoping to buy to measure up for carpets and curtains. The thought of Justin brandishing a tape measure really stretched the imagination even then...

Very good piece HERE Fink to explain why the horses are so compliant. Reading it you realise that far from being far fetched, the storyline is all too realistic. Chilling. As far as I am concerned Philip has no redeeming features - he is practically psychopathic in his ability to convince himself as well as Gavin - not to mention the slaves - that he has done nothing wrong, coupled with his ability to lie so convincingly to poor Kirsty. The very fact that he knows he has to lie says it all really. His concern is entirely for himself and to avoid being found out. Possibly he does love her, but only in as much as he loves himself. Poor, poor Kirsty - I was shocked enough to realise such things can happen by hearing it on TA, imagine discovering your own husband is the perpetrator. I think - like Helen before her - she may be paying a visit to the first wife. Looking at the real life example in the BBC article I think we can safely assume that Gavin is not going to get off lightly either.

Re Justin’s involvement in the Beechwopd property development- wasn’t there a weird scene when he and Emma went to the site of the house she was hoping to buy to measure up for carpets and curtains. The thought of Justin brandishing a tape measure really stretched the imagination even then...

Indeed ... I think I commented at the time on how unlikely it was. But yes, that was definitely the story they presented.

But my goodness, what would I do without this thread? For someone who spends about 18 hours a day with a phone in their hand I still miss an awful lot of information. Really fascinating BBC article - thanks, Lil'G.

There was rather too much exposition for one episode from the poor horses - but it was clear they all in one way or another lacked the capacity to look after themselves. Do we know how old they are? I couldn't help comparing them to the young people amongst my family and friends, surrounded by endless fierce love, guidance and support It was painful listening.

I listened several times to be sure, and what Philip claimed to have cooked was definitely tartines, not tartlets.

Tartines are open sandwiches. A tartine is a slice of bread with stuff on it.

Why he cooked them is a puzzle, and how he planned to "take them to the lads for a Christmas treat" is another one. Why three of them was so filling is one more. How many he had expected Kirsty to eat for there to be enough left over to take to three other people the following day is also puzzling.

"Here's yer Christmas treat lads! A slice of stale bread with some funny cheese, half a pear and some nuts on it."

Why have the SLs only now given the horses a proper voice? I was fine with them being (virtually) silent and would have been fine with them being fully-developed characters but why give them a voice at this late stage?

That was exactly my feeling. It was as if they suddenly decided to flesh out the characters, presumably to make their being shipped out to the awful Victoria even more poignant, but its really feels as if all that information about them and their backgrounds has been hastily shoehorned in; it would have been much more effective if there had been a slow build-up so that they were more established as characters.