🎄Archers thread #122: Deck the Hall with Eddie, Freddie 🎵 'Tis the Season to be jolly (but orange juice for you, Alice)

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you love Bert Fry’s poetry (as I do), or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3853783--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-5-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @C8H10N4O2 for requesting an annoyingly cheerful thread title which might take us up to Christmas and to @Prestissimo for the title suggestion. I was strongly tempted by @LillianGish’s suggestion: Eddie’s turkeys, Freddie’s show, village green with lights aglow, Stir Up Sunday, Deck the Hall, Merry Christmas one and all - with apologies to Bert Fry and @R4’s suggestion Wassail to the Ambridge Not-A-Panto where Freddie gets nine LESSONS in directing from CAROLe Lynda. Top work, all!

Three days to go until we can return to Ambridge.

My list for Father Christmas

In the next few weeks I’d like:

• Freddie’s show to be a huge success

• Philip and Gavin to be driven out of the village with pitchforks into the waiting arms of the police, and the three ‘horses’ rescued and taken in by kind people who will help them turn their lives around

• Pip to take a perpetual vow of silence and leave for a nunnery

• a terrific Grundy Christmas (although the travails of Alice and Chris will overshadow things)

• Alice to lose the baby, as this seems the least grim option for us listeners; she leaves Chris and makes a fresh start of some kind

What do you all want for Christmas from The Archers?

From the previous thread:

I found the GP appointment more upsetting than the scene in the bathroom. Two highly irritating men telling Alice what is best for her and her baby. They were hectoring in tone, pressuring her to agree with them and promise to be a good girl.

I don't think the GP really had much choice. He had to put the baby first, it was clearly essential for the baby that Alice stop drinking ASAP, therefore he had to refer her to the treatment that stood the best chance of achieving that. He also had to point out to her that, if she refused, his professional duty required him to report it to SS and that they might take further action. I have to admit that I slightly enjoyed Alice realising that throwing a tantrum just wasn't going to work this time.

Yes, he could have raised the issue of termination, but as we only heard part of the consultation we don't know whether that hadn't been covered already.

I am not sure that allowing the baby to be unaffected by Alice's drinking would be an option as the message would really be that you can get away with it. If done properly it will open eyes to children's services etc although as said in previous thread this was put across too negatively as a threat.

I wonder if they're heading for a tragic choice for Chris, your wife or your baby (which I know choosing your child is what most of us would do but still makes it a heart breaking decision). I hope they don't just kill Alice off so they don't have to deal with the long term consequences of the storyline (special educational needs / disability / behavioural issues is much needed within the demographic and the challenges it raises for parents could offer much information and support).

Thanks for the new thread @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g .
Not listened to yesterday's episode yet, saving it for tomorrow.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g
it's a red letter day when I meet someone else who also confesses to being a listener!

On the evening on which Carl gave Amy the push in no uncertain terms and told her what for, I was at Lidl to buy some stuff, and waited until the episode finished before getting out of the car. As the theme tune started there were several loud cheers from all round the car-park, and about eight other people got out of their cars at the same time and we all grinned at each other as we headed for the entrance to the shop.

@PronkWine

I just think that this is going down the route of Ambridge Health Fairy intervening and the child being born with zero ill effects from constant heavy drinking during and beyond the first trimester.

I think part of the issue with FAS is that it's not easily identifiable, especially not from birth and that it may rear its head in behavioural issues years later, I think the physical (facial) signs of FAS are the most severe and telling but possibly not from birth?

I didn’t mean specifically the issues not being apparent at birth, I meant that they may just never write the child as having any problems at any point in its life. I would not put it past the scriptwriters.

he could have raised the issue of termination, but as we only heard part of the consultation we don't know whether that hadn't been covered already

That would have been a bit crap, wouldn't it? It's hardly a small detail to relegate to the magic zone of 'it happened, but off air'. air'
Nothing about the consultation suggested that the blindingly obvious was mentioned at all. Because Chris was there. Really shouldn't be allowed. If they were in sync with the rest of England, it wouldn't have been. Still, if she does get carted off to some bin or other, she just might get a chance to explore the options in confidence.

@PronkWine

According to a little google, even in alcoholics the chance of having a baby with FAS is about 5%.

According to this BBC article It is estimated 3.2% of babies born in the UK are affected by FASD - that is nearly four times the rate of autism

I'm not sure how that fits with your statistic of only 5% from that group but that is 3.2% of all births. Presumably the vast majority of mothers are not alcoholics so it seems a little unlikely that the figure for mothers who are alcoholics is only 5% of their group but account for 3.2% of all births.

The report also says
Children looked after or adopted are at significantly increased risk of having FASD, with 75% of children referred for adoption having a history of alcohol exposure during pregnancy, according to Scottish government figures.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-48667771

I knew a couple who adopted a baby and theirs was a long, sad story of their son gradually diverging further and further from his peers in terms of ability. I don't know when they got a formal diagnosis of FAS but it wasn't obvious at the point they became his parents.

Thanks for being such a trooper and kicking off the new thread again @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g!

Am steadfastly refusing to acknowledge Christmas is on the horizon so the festive theme came as a surprise. By the way, I am utterly baffled by the assumption that everyone wants a ‘normal’ Christmas. I heard a scientist wondering whether the country’s funeral directors were braced and ready for the inevitable Covid spike in January. I just don’t agree with politicians that people are willing to suspend reality and sacrifice their family members for the sake of a few days all together eating Quality Street, watching The Great Escape and (for a limited few) going to church. Anyway...

Has Freddie looked into online streaming facilities for the Christmas play? As far as I can see, the pandemic is over in Ambridge. I’m glad Eddie has been dropped from the cast list. I hope Freddie doesn’t crumble under Lynda’s pressure but he inevitably will. She’s enjoying pulling the strings while pretending to have stepped aside.

Ref the pandemic in Ambridge - have we heard anything about the Rule of 6? Or do these episodes pre-date that as well.

I am actually struggling to remember what life was like post-lockdown 1 and pre-Rule of 6.

Has anyone in Ambridge mentioned having a face mask?

Anyone shielding? Anyone had Covid or know anyone who has?

(I didn't listen during the Monologues so I suppose this could have been mentioned then)

I would like a complete Ambridge Lego model village
I'm having (another) major'ish clear out and have enough Lego to build Borchester. You're welcome to it but you'll have to build it yourself!!

I'm intrigued by the Alice /Chris storyline. The pregnancy angle makes it more complicated, so more interesting because of all the permutations. Is Alice going to recover? Relapse? Will their marriage survive? Will the baby be affected and how will anyone know? How are the wider families going to react? etc etc.

I'm not sure why Chris is getting so much stick. Blaming him,in part, for Alice's illness just makes her into a helpless victim. Alcoholism is far more complicated.
The only thing I do wonder about Chris is how he finds enough horses to shoe to make a living.

@Roysnewshirt, I agree there's a significant minority (possibly silent majority, who knows) who would much prefer a nice quiet, scaled down Christmas. We do, and always have, so it won't make much difference to us.

Very evident every year on MN when we see the posts from women who've worked themselves into exhaustion buying food and drink and producing one elaborate meal after another for huge numbers of people over the festive period, cleaning and decorating the house, buying and wrapping all the presents, doing all the things that make Christmas in their family (elf on a shelf , Advent calendar for each child, visiting Santa's grotto, trips to Lapland , parties, carol concerts, pantomime), taking on all the work of getting gifts posted/delivered to people they won't see at Christmas, arranging family get togethers including hosting in their own home, often with house guests so more work getting rooms ready, extra laundry after they've gone, or alternatively making all the arrangements to travel to someone else's house and all the time having to deal with fractious children and other relatives. It's sad to read the same posts every single year:

I put so much time and thought into their presents, but nobody does that for me - even DH gave me [insert wildly unsuitable/unimaginative/cheap/insulting gift here - or worst of all, nothing at all]
Nobody said thank you, nobody even noticed how hard I worked
I'm a vegetarian, MIL knows this, but the only part of the Christmas dinner I could eat was the cauliflower cheese, everything else had meat added in some form
The credit card's just arrived and I don't know how we're going to manage - we've wildly overspent on Christmas and we'll be paying for it all year.
Thank god that's over for another year. DF ruined Christmas for all of us by sounding off about Brexit. DS drank herself into a stupor and made no contribution to the meal at all. I ended up crying in the kitchen ...

Gosh, I've depressed myself typing all that out. Merry Christmas to one and all, when it finally comes!

Debbie voiced one or two of the monologues and we learned that her biological father, Roger Travers-Macy, was very ill with the virus. She'd heard from his wife - and was worried and concerned about not having seen him and not being able to visit him in ... Scotland, I think. (May be inventing that.)

I love Debbie but the episodes struck me as spurious and unconvincing, suggesting an ongoing relationship that we'd had no previous evidence of.

I'm not sure I've heard a single person in Ambridge use the word 'mask'!

Elizabeth managed to put on a big family gathering (in the Orangery?) at Lower Loxley for Jill's birthday.

Jazzer is still chasing women, entirely unhampered by covid restrictions. More hampered by Johnny who managed to leave a party (?) with Jazzer's latest crush.

Only Ben has acknowledged any discernible alteration to his life - Freshers' Week was a damp squib and some of his university lectures are online.

So no, nothing like my 2020 at all!

(Was replying, evidently very slowly, to Wisteria!)

@UntamedWisteria, I think they've given up trying to keep up with the ever-changing Covid situation. No mention of masks that I can recall. A few references to how tough things have been at Grey Gables and Lower Loxley. Remarkably little said about The Bull. Did Toby say gin sales had been good during lockdown or did I imagine that?

If anybody has a spare hour, "Ruari" had a Zoom interview with the Dumteedum team last night.

What a lovely lad! Who auditioned to be Chris.

I expect it will be up on YouTube or the website in a couple of days' time. Over the summer I found these "chats with the cast" more interesting than the monologues.

I feel for them a little bit re Covid, I just dont see how they could be expected to keep up. However that only Debbie's father has had covid is highly unrealistic, in March -May I knew no one who had it, in the last few weeks I have lost count.
I have been astounded by the fact that the actress playing Alice can act. What a waste that has been over the years. Alice needs to speak to someone about a termination, the pressure from Chris is unbearable.

I think they are right to more or less ignore COVID. They have no chance of being in the right phase at the right time. It’s nice to have a glimpse of more normal life where there are topics of conversation other than covid, the American election and our dismal prime minister.

Oh dear. Mention of the American election has unfortunately reminded me that there's someone in Ambridge in possession of a very recent Oxford degree in PPE.

It's actually painful to think of the missed opportunities ... And the fact that she only has anything at all on her CV because of a grant from her great-grandmother.

Re the COVID stats, I really do think it depends on where/how you live.

I knew several families that were ill in February/March after ski and business trips and a school outbreak (so the rest of us hunkered down and few ventured far on day trips/holiday over the summer).

It's currently whizzing around the 2 unis and we've now had 2 cases at DD's secondary.

I wonder what on earth they will do for Christmas (as presumably Jill, Peggy, Chris, Jim... will have all been vaccinated and be getting ready to party)!

I only know students who have had covid. And now there are almost no cases reported in my university, something like 20 cases out of 50 000 students and staff.

I'm quite pleased that its not all about Covid in Ambridge. They have referenced the hospitality industry and zoom consultations - so they are not ignoring it.

I know a few people who have been ill and badly affected by it. Life-changing impacts. It's in the news constantly.

I agree there's no way Ambridge can keep up with restrictions.I personally don't know anyone who has had it, although there was a case in DS1's year group.
When Jazzer invited Johnny to a party (which ended up with Johnny going home with the woman Jazzer had his eye on), he did ask - "is that allowed?". So a slight nod to the restrictions and an indication that not everyone is following them to the letter.

I love the idea of a Lego Ambridge!

I will look out for the Ruairi zoom interview.

Thanks for your Lidl car park story Ask. I could do with some stuff from there but maybe I should wait until Monday evening. I can't say I've seen any likely TA listeners in my local Lidl, but how could I tell? The people I know who listen to TA are slightly older than me and of a similar social background (i.e. white, middle-aged, MC, professionals/university educated, but about 50:50 male and female). I live in a multicultural area, so I'm usually surprised to hear english being spoken.

Gasp, I think we share similar ideas about Christmas. If mine were any lower key, all I'd need to do would be to not buy sprouts and not listen to the Queen's speech and not crack open the booze while listening. Bah humbug.