Archers thread #113: Who’ll find some Magic Time this Christmas in Ambridge? Share the glad tidings (and bad writing) in The Archers! Election-free zone so far ...

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Hannah to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @SurpriseSparDay for the title. I haven't heard 12/12 yet so must catch up now, seeking relief from the outside world.

Hannah overheard Neil talking with Lilian, misunderstood what was being said, and assumed he was trying to exercise undue influence to get the affordable house in the new estate for his daughter because Lilian (who had no control over the matter whatsoever) reassured him that she was sure Emma had a chance of getting it.

Hannah then attacked Neil and threatened to report him for it -- to whom or for what she clearly had no idea any more than anyone else would have done, since he had done nothing to report and there is nobody to whom his having a conversation in the pub with somebody he has known since before Hannah was born should be reported.

Since then she has taken, and also manufactured, every possible opportunity to attack Neil and to try to undermine him with his employers, even though she was clearly never considered for the house at all since when Ed and Emma were unable to take it she was not offered it, and this will have had nothing to do with Neil -- his being chairman of the parish council really doesn't give him any power in the allocation of houses which are not his to allocate.

She is a nasty bit of work with a self-created grudge against someone who has not in fact done anything against her at all -- has in fact overlooked a lot of behaviour in her about which most managers would have taken action months ago.

That is all true, but she will use Neil snapping at her and telling her to shut up as cause for grievance, and there were no witnesses to give an objective view.

She also played mind games, verging on being emotionally abusive, to Tom, when they were FWBs, and then became jealous when he chose Gnasher over her.

She's just a thoroughly nasty person, through and through. I really don't like listening to her.

What's not clear to me is if the problems with the pigs are as a result of Hannah's mismanagement (changing the feed and then failing to check up on them over a weekend) or is this a bigger problem of pigs in an industrial unit? Hannah obviously doesn't give a s* about the pigs, she's very much on the same page as Justin - it's all about profit, whereas Neil has a much closer affinity with his animals - in the same way as Jazzer - he was clearly very upset at having to shoot one. Neil should get back to proper pig farming - possibly with Rex - and leave Hannah to Justin. They deserve each other. Actually this reminds me a bit of Charlie carrying the can for Knob's cock ups back in the Berrow Farm days. Justin was too stupid then to see who was to blame for what was going wrong. Hannah is too thoroughly unpleasant to be believable - I can't believe someone like Johnny would want to live with her.

Didn't Justin have a stern word with Hannah about her undermining Neil? I believe he might even have told her she is on her last chance??

Will the SWs remember this or not ?

I think Philip might be planning that too, MysticBore. But surely she can’t run out on a wedding! She just wouldn’t.

I think the problem with the pigs, is down to Hannah's changing their feed suddenly, and possibly/probably, she didn't notice it when she was on shift that weekend. Neil has mentioned before, that the pigs have toys to play with, and they're probably living in as high a welfare situation as indoor pigs will get, because Neil wouldn't have it any other way.

She's come from industrial pig farming in the US, (from what I've read on here) and is just interested in the profit margins. She certainly doesn't have any empathy for them, to her, they're just livestock.

Justin did speak to her about undermining Neil, and warned her to stop.

I think Kirsty will want to leave when she discovers Philip has agreed to pay for Gavin's wedding which I assume he has.

Hannah said she was going to talk to Johnny about moving back into No.1. I hope he says he doesn't want to because she's horrible

Is there any way she could have stimulated this latest round of tail biting? She has a strong desire for Neil's gradual reversing for the diet change not to work. Could she be giving them the wrong feed every time she's on duty, and would this have the desired effect? Neil is clearly baffled, which suggests to me something happening in their management which he's not aware of.

Lovely hearing Susan suggest Neil leave Berrow, I never thought she’d be so considerate.

Maybe I've missed a couple of episodes since September where Pip was enthusiastic about rewilding? I really don't remember any.

Same @Madcats, I don’t know if i’m remembering right but it seemed to me like Pip’s nose was put out of joint massively by Rex starting to work on the rewilding with Phoeble (back when feebs was a normal likeable person, before the personality transplant fairy visited her), i think a few ppl on here said at the time haha green eyed monster. Then Phreebie asked pip to join them and pip sounded really put out and unsure and sort of huffed and puffed about it a bit before grudgingly agreeing, and made out like she was doing them a massive favour. Then all she’s done since is moan her arse off about it all. This story is a total crock.

Re number one the green. My fantasy as to what will happen is that hannah will assume she can move back in but lo! Emma and Ed will reconcile, with a little help from Will, who has got a lot nicer recently. In his new unlikely capacity as fairy godfather to ed n em’s relationship he will rent them number one because he needs support from clarrie and eddie still (and they need him, i think poppy cheers eddie up a lot and he’s struggling a bit lately) (this will also be handy for Emma’s inevitable new job as barmaid at the bull). ANYWAY, this yet again puts Hannah in the position of being done out of her rights to a home by Emma, and she kicks right off and gets barred from the bull and everyone sees her for the absolute bitch she is (this is my fantasy). Subsequent storylines include Will reaping his karmic reward for all this generosity and maturity by being visited by the job and relationship fairies who send him a lovely woman (please god can she have a proper job and her own place and all that kind of thing), a rewarding job and a beautiful work/life balance. The end.

Am delighted others hate Hannah too - she is so awful. I have never been able to see the point of her. Anyone who speaks to people like she does would have no friends. She is some weird monstrous parody of a person.

It's pretty clear that Neil will leave Berrow and the talk with Rex might presage a partnership, or was it a chance for him to re-evaluate what he wants out of a job?

Agree that Hannah is nightmarish, almost ludicrously so in the sense that no male character is as unrelievedly poisonous. TASWAMA strikes again.

Oh i’d say Russ is pretty irredeemable with his pretentiousness, sponging, being a wanker to Jim, besides all the obvious gross stuff.

Actually, cancel that, they made him into the Anxiety Whisperer didn’t they? Ugh. I am hoping that that was part of a long game where he tries sleazing round Elizabeth and eventually gets his comeuppance, and not like ‘oh look he’s nice really’ but you never know with this lot do you

[Hannah}misunderstood what was being said

Hannah didn't misunderstand anything - she just grabbed it as another opportunity to play her nasty games with Neil. She is far too manipulative and canny herself not to know her prey's weakness and Neil would be very susceptible to that kind of accusation because it strikes at his fundamental honesty.

The Bull's new name (The Cock and Bull?)

The Lush and The Oversinger?

But I bet it ends up being the Peacock or similar.

The Pig and Bitch ?

Phoeble. (Could be a typo but knowing you lot I suspect it was genius punnage).

I am another person loving the name Phoeble.

I also think Phillip has promised Gavin the £20k and that was why he arrived back home so quickly saying it was all sorted. Are we going to see another Overspending storyline, like Tom and Natasha? Kirsty was initially worried about moving in with Phillip as the house was expensive and she does not earn enough to pay 50:50. Phillip has bought lots of new things for the house - including vast amounts of Christmas lights.

Agree that Hannah is nightmarish, almost ludicrously so in the sense that no male character is as unrelievedly poisonous. TASWAMA strikes again.

I could have sworn that there has been at least one male character within recent memory who would fit that description ...

I thought Philip was the builder for Jim's extension, but then I'd forgotten it was happening, so could be quite wrong. I dimly recall a conversation between Phil and Jim about options for the form it could take, months and months ago, but nothing else. I do feel for the builders. We've had builders in for extended periods several times and it's hell on earth, but you just have to grit your teeth and get through it. Very bad idea to insult good builders and find yourself with a half-finished job.

What annoys me about Hannah is that when she had her first short stay in Ambridge many years ago she was lovely and I was sorry when she left. When she returned I was expecting more of the same. Instead we have this monster, with no explanation about what happened to make her this way. Why not introduce a totally new character instead?

I hope The Archers is secure in its place on Radio 4 even though it's going through a duff patch, but who knows. It always used to have the highest listening figures of anything on R4 except the Today programme and possibly PM. The BBC has to make noises about wanting to get a new younger audience listening to the radio, but frankly I think that's a lost cause. If they continue making speech radio at all, it's always going to appeal predominantly to an older audience, and with people living so much longer, that's a lot of people. Why shouldn't we have a network primarily for the over 40s? We pay the licence fee. Very few under 25s do that.

It can't be the Peacock if the whizzy consultant said animal-based pub names were out of fashion.

Also, as regards the 20k for the wedding, that is Philip's business if he has decided to hand it over, and surely Kirsty would have to accept that. They don't have joint finances, they aren't married and Gavin as Philip's son and business partner is surely in line to inherit most of Philip's estate. (Does Philip have any other children?) This could be seen as an advance on his inheritance. Entirely up to Gavin if he wants to squander it on a destination wedding that hardly anyone else can attend, although I suspect that Kirsty is going to have to use some of her annual leave to go with Philip. (What a prospect, trapped with Philip's ex, Gavin, Kelly and some of their friends in a remote place for days on end.)

It's Philip's money to do as he likes but I would be a bit concerned at this priorities if I were Kirsty.

It is Philip''s business, but I think what Kirsty was more concerned about was that Philip can't actually afford it, and trying to work out where the money is coming from is causing him stress - she's worried about his health more than his money. That seems reasonable.

I don't know how closely involved with the business Gav is - how much of the books does he see? I haven'the had the impression he is a partner, but equally, we probably just haven't been told anyway, so there is flexibility for storylines. Just because the business is doing well doesn't mean there's tons of spare cash about. I think Gavin could be doing it partly to make a point to Philip about Kirsty, that Gavin is the one in a "proper" relationship.

It's all going to end in tears one way or another.