Archers thread #112: Quelle beau de lollox! And yet we stick with it. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Alf to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @DoctorTwo for the thread title! I was strongly tempted by R4's suggestion of Wildlife on Four: Jonneh is wild at Lily, Phoebe rewilds by Occam, Joy is in the wilderness and David is bewildered by a marriage proposal.

So we did make it past Joe's funeral at last. Are we heading for a Christmas octogenarian wedding now?

I feel a bit sorry for Jeremy Howe. He is quite a bit older than the last two Editors, IIRC, and has had a long career at the BBC already. He is not likely to go off to a TV soap, as both the last two did, so he might manage a longish stint on TA before retirement.

However, he's got to contend with this tricky period picking up the storylines the others put in place plus anything the interim Editors started off in between the last two permanent Editors, and try to do something with them. It can't be easy.

It reminds me of that excellent round they sometimes do on Masterchef. Four competitors are put in a team. Three leave the room. The first one is shown the ingredients they have to make use of and has to come up with a menu. They start everything off but can't leave anything in writing for the next person, nor can they speak to anyone else on the team. When time's up, they have to leave the kitchen and team member #2 comes in and has to guess what's happening and carry on. And so on. They often make a dreadful hash of it. That's rather how TA is at the moment.

Exactly like that, Gasp0!

I anticipated some swift defence of Mr Howe. (From you!) And yes, you’re right - but it’s almost as if the pattern is set now. And Phoebe’s entry upon adult life has not been handled well.

It certainly hasn't.

Who is blaming her? There's a difference between blaming her and suggesting that actually Lily might want to consider her actions and accept some responsibility for them.

In the context of a teenage student being groomed by a teacher that seems to me to be the very essence of victim blaming.

Lovely master chef analogy

Also it was Phoebe not Lily who lied about the Pregnancy test

No it was not. It was the charming Lily who made up the story about Lexi.

Roy, in a state of near apoplexy, demands to know why there is a pregnancy test underway in his bathroom. Phoebe is reduced to a state of mere acquiescence as Lily takes off on a gigantic flight of fancy. To cut a long story short, the girls end up by saying that the test belonged to Lexi, that she had just left as Roy came in and that it needed to be done because of a mad moment of passion with Constantin. Roy leaves, confused but somewhat relieved. Phoebe is furious, saying that Lexi was her friend and Lily has done nothing but make matters much worse

www.lowfield.co.uk/archers/weekly.phtml?20170813

I'd forgotten that. That was a horrible thing to do.

In the context of a teenage student being groomed by a teacher that seems to me to be the very essence of victim blaming

She was 18 and he wasn't her teacher. CMR clearly was in the wrong but to absolve her of any responsibility for her lies and behaviour is ridiculous.

Looks like I'm ridiculous then, I don't think you blame people who are being groomed for being secretive.

Let's call an end to this and agree to disagree.

I don't think you blame people who are being groomed for being secretive

That'll be two of us then.

Although I can see why her brother looks so much better.

• Lying persistently
• manipulating people
• using family to get one job to deal drugs putting their business at risk
• putting his own family's business at risk
• laughing at his stupid sister when she worked to support the business in her holidays
• nearly killing his cousin
• putting god knows how many other kids' lives at risk to fund his jollies
• whining incessently about how terribly unfaaaaaair life was
• taking advantage of his aunts hospitality to abuse her privacy and then spread rumours about her
• using another connection to get a job most ex cons wouldn't even be considered for and then taking advantage of that person to spread spiteful gossip about them
• blaming absolutely everything on everyone else

But yes, being groomed and not managing a controlling predatory adult whilst a teenager, working hard at school, working to support a family business from the point at which she could navigate the booking system is obviously so much worse.

Although I can see why her brother looks so much better

He doesn't. They are both spoilt brats- but Lily is the one getting excuse after excuse made for her.

She is lauded to the skies for the frankly unremarkable feat of passing a few exams and getting into university. She helped out the family business during school holidays , which as holiday jobs go will be as comfortable a number going . I doubt dopey Elizabeth ever had the expectations she would have of the other staff.

She isn't "working hard to support a family business"- she is there now because it suits her now and she had no other choice. It's not the saving LL single handed some posters are making out.

She is not a child although she still acts like a silly spoilt child.

She was 18 and he wasn't her teacher.

Wasn't she studying there? It doesn't make a difference if she was do his subject or not. Even if she'd been there as a mature student, she was off-limits, in just the same way that relationships between people at different levels in the same reporting line are banned in my workplace - there's an imbalance of power which makes it unethical.

He was the deputy head even more power than her teacher.
I wonder why it was Kenton who was the only one to express concerns, he has seen a lot of the world I suppose so maybe he has seen lots of creepy behaviour.

Great master chef analogy.
Elizabeth couldn’t complain because he was character witness at Freddie’s trial wasn’t he?

She is lauded to the skies for the frankly unremarkable feat of passing a few exams and getting into university. She helped out the family business during school holidays , which as holiday jobs go will be as comfortable a number going

Are you listening to the same series as me?

She got ignored by her own mother on results day and thereafter because Freddie. She held together a failing business with little business world experience and naus when her mum went off into Save-Freddieland and then depression and she supported herself and her cocklodger boyfriend in Manchester, and made the grown up financial decisions when he was wailing that she was his muse and he couldn't paint when she was at work or uni, and he couldn't get a day job because the sun was setting in the wrong place or some such bollocks. She's dealt with a childish and foolish brother all her life and been called in to patch up his relationship with their mother multiple times.

MissBarbary
"Also it was Phoebe not Lily who lied about the Pregnancy test as far as I remember"
Yes it was Pheobe who lied about the pregnancy test

Really not. Phoebe took the test and left it in the bathroom for six minutes to make sure it had worked; Roy came home earlier than expected and found it, and understandably wanted to know what was going on; Lily jumped straight in and claimed it was Lexi's because Lexi had been shagging with Constantin. Phoebe was furious with her because Lexi had been a good friend to Phoebe, but Lily just boasted about what a good liar she was, and what did it matter anyway because they were only pickers?

BBC Synopsis for Tuesday 15th August, 2017:
"Phoebe is still off work and she fears her second morning-after pill didn't have time to work. Lily brings her a pregnancy test. Phoebe feels sick as she waits for the result. Roy returns home unexpectedly and finds the test in the bathroom. Under pressure, Lily announces the pregnancy test, which is negative, is Lexi's. Roy is relieved it's not Phoebe's. Lily goes further, saying Lexi had a fling with Constantin. Later, Phoebe berates Lily for making Lexi the scapegoat. And Phoebe points out she could still be pregnant, it's too early for a test. So the problem is far from solved."

Lily lied about being a lesbian.

Well, she failed to correct Elizabeth when she leaped to the conclusion that Lily was a lesbian because Lily kept going to visit a fictional female friend (Russ really).

She helped out the family business during school holidays , which as holiday jobs go will be as comfortable a number going

She effectively took over large elements of the jobs of both Geraldine and Elizabeth until whatsit came in to replace Geraldine, whereupon she got involved in training and helping him. It was at a time when the business was in crisis after the Hallowe'en cock-up and with no alcohol licence, but she kept it going. She organised and ran successful major events. In the meantime she was supporting her brother through a major breakdown and flogging off to visit her brother and try to keep him on an even keel. I wouldn't view any of that as a comfortable holiday job.

LittleBrown Not only the CA's. the Radio Times tends to "Spoil" the week's episodes in a precis before the listings .

I don't mind though.

Ref. Mr. Howe's editorship, if he had any idea he'd pull the strings of the old plots together; either finishing or continuing them, rather than instigating new characters\plots that seem to be unrelated to the old ones.

Yes, but, Beveren, her "rescue" of the business at the end of 2018 was not during her school (or college as it is now) holidays. It happened when she was running home from the stupidity of having made a complete mess of going to university, and "Oh I have to help mumsy" made a very good excuse to abandon Russ in Manchester and not go back to him for a bit, having managed a scant nine weeks (15th September - 16th November) of the twelve week term and the three year course. She didn't come home because she was needed; she came home because she and her useless cocklodger had already gone through the allowance Elizabeth gave her, and she needed to scrounge more money to pay the rent.

Lily goes further, saying Lexi had a fling with Constantin

That was a really nasty thing to do and as Roy had already believed the generic lie that the test was Lexi's the embellishment wasn't necessary at all.

Good analogy, Gasp.

Does anyone else have a sense of foreboding about how much Ruby and her nastiness has been mentioned recently? I hope we’re not looking at sheep worrying in the near future.

“ Yes, but, Beveren, her "rescue" of the business at the end of 2018 was not during her school (or college as it is now) holidays. It happened when she was running home from the stupidity of having made a complete mess of going to university, ”
Surely the first time she significantly
helped out with the business was when Geraldine walked out and Lizzie was screwing up managing LL without her?

Not nastiness, naughtiness I meant.

That was the same incident, BertrandRussell. Geraldine had enough of being blackguarded and resigned on 9th November 2018, at which time Lily was in Manchester. Nobody (apart from Johnny in a text, which she just replied to to the effect "She will take care of things" on 28th October 2018 and clearly didn't take all that seriously since all she did was text Elizabeth saying nothing of importance the following day; the BBC synopsis for 28th day says "Johnny's texted Lily to suggest that she check in with Elizabeth. He didn't say that he's been worrying about Elizabeth, and Tony agrees this was a wise decision." and doesn't mention her replying, and when Elizabeth tried to phone her on 29th she didn't answer her phone) had told Lily that her mother was having a breakdown; it came as a complete shock to her. She came home on 16th November expecting to stay for the weekend, scrounge the money for the rent, and then return to Manchester, but decided when she realised that Elizabeth was not actually functioning to abandon Russ to his fate and look after the LL hospitality business for Elizabeth until she'd managed to get a new manager to replace the woman she'd driven out.

Chemenger I did notice that neither Lilian or Justin have any idea about how to treat a dog. She is too indulgent, giving her food from the table which encourages begging and stuff that isn't good for a dog. He gets annoyed at her sniffing (which is what a dog DOES) .