Archers thread #112: Quelle beau de lollox! And yet we stick with it. Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like Alf to stay around, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @DoctorTwo for the thread title! I was strongly tempted by R4's suggestion of Wildlife on Four: Jonneh is wild at Lily, Phoebe rewilds by Occam, Joy is in the wilderness and David is bewildered by a marriage proposal.

So we did make it past Joe's funeral at last. Are we heading for a Christmas octogenarian wedding now?

“ I assume the blimey was to AskingQuestionsAllTheTime's post and not my perfectly reasonable one”

Oops, sorry, yes! There does seem to be a bit of projection going o. I. This thread recently!

You mean when Liberty was staying for a few nights? On that occasion Jill had been taken aback by finding Liberty in the kitchen one morning wearing Josh's dressing-gown and helping herself to tea and toast, and Ruth felt obliged to make light of it because otherwise she would have been agreeing with Jill. We didn't hear what she subsequently said to eg David about the matter; on form it would have been something giggly about sex.

"Projection". Interesting. I think that is the second time you've made that suggestion? What exactly do you mean? It might be helpful if you defined your use of the term.

In psychology it has been defined as "Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring hostile thoughts." I cannot see how that applies in either of the two occasions on which you have employed it.

Sighing, (amateur) theatrically thinking Pip makes me want to punch a wall.

I am now wondering what possible business of Ruth's it is if her twenty-two-year-old son kissed someone?

I think it is her business if her son was being a shit towards his friend and cousin.

I fear the golden child is going to discover Justin's ulterior motive in letting the rewinding trio have the land, and will use that to drive a harder bargain. Cue more simpering from her parents about how WONDERFUL she is. I may have to switch off if that happens.

Ruth is and always has been prurient.
Anyone who would be 'furious' with their adult son for kissing a presumably adult, uncoerced, woman, has serious boundary issues, imo.

Mind you, only in inbred Ambridge would the parent be likely to hear about it in the first place.

Anyone who would be 'furious' with their adult son for kissing a presumably adult, uncoerced, woman, has serious boundary issues, imo

You've really missed the point. That isn't remotely what Ruth or posters on here were talking about. Ruth was angry because it was a shitty thing to do to Josh's friend and cousin.

I don't recall Ruth being remotely prurient about Liberty staying over. Ruth has plenty of character flaws one can criticise her for but her reaction here isn't one of them.

Jill had been taken aback by finding Liberty in the kitchen one morning wearing Josh's dressing-gown and helping herself to tea and toast, and Ruth felt obliged to make light of it because otherwise she would have been agreeing with Jill. We didn't hear what she subsequently said to eg David about the matter; on form it would have been something giggly about sex

Well that's a novel interpretation, including making up a conversation we never heard. I thought Ruth's reaction was plausible and reasonable. It reminded me of the Sunday morning my son's girlfriend first wandered into the kitchen- all those discussions my husband and I had about would we allow this all for nothing. I recall being mildly embarrassed and thinking "just act normal"

I don't think I have missed the point, Miss Barbary.

"You bad boy, kissing your cousin's girlfriend" suggests to me that the firlfriend has no agency and is somehow the cousin's property. But none of it is Ruth's damned business.

As well as being prurient, which I agree with AQATT that she is, she is a nebby horror.

Anyone remember her - and Jill - spying on Rickyard when Toby was initially in -the saddle- residence there? Toe-curlingly cringeworthy. No one at Brookfield has any boundaries sense of how to behave. Revolting mob.

GIRLfriend, ffs

I think Ruth does have a right to know what's going on, if it's causing arguments just in front of the house. Whether or not Josh or Bella initiated things, Josh could have chosen to say, "no, you're going out with my mate." Obviously he didn't, and he doesn't sound at all remorseful. I think if he'd apologised to Johnny and said he was really drunk, and Bella had sworn they had already broken up, then, it's still not a good thing to do, but as it is, it's coming over as, "I've always fancied Bella, and she was up for it, so I didn't care about anyone else, I was going to get what I wanted regatdless, because I'm a selfish, entitled bastard, and sod anyone else."

Or because he is 22. Not all twentysomethings would have done it but a lot would. I know Johnny has been going on about this being his great love but it obviously really wasn't for Bella. And yes I know she should have finished it before she s snogged Josh but this is how people learn about relationships. She's not perfect Josh is not perfect and Johnny is not perfect,however much we want him to be

1. Anyone would be surprised to find a stranger making tea first thing in the morning. Courteous adults let the people they are sharing a house with know if that is likely to happen.

2. Josh knew that Bella was in a relationship. Even if she initiated the kiss he should have said no. And his “snooze you lose” attitude is vile. Ruth has a perfect right to be pissed off with him. As do Freddy and Lily.

Here’s my hope for the rewilding project: somewhere in the BL board there is someone who becomes an enthusiast for the project and acts as a competent friend to the three total idiots who are currently trying to run it. Otherwise it is doomed either to failure or completely unbelievable and unexplained success. The three of them are just hopeless, they’re like less charismatic Apprentice candidates. No strategy, no tactics, no plan of any kind. Their business plan must have been written in 50point on one side of A4.

Ruth was angry because it was a shitty thing to do to Josh's friend and cousin. This. And reasonably so - and if your mum can’t tell you then who can? The rewilding nonsense is just tying itself in more and more knots - I think Pip is right to be suspicious, Justin is clearly going to end up shafting them. I still don’t understand why Phoebe, with her degree from PPE at Oxford (of whatever class - I’m beginning to think it must have been a third), doesn’t get a proper job. Is she living with Roy? We haven’t heard a peep from him.

Over on Twitter, one of the SW's has been quizzed about how Pip is supporting herself. He 'assumes' she is signing on.

Quite why they didn't have her helping a prospective MP as work experience, or doing some seasonal Christmas work, is beyond me.
It would still give her plenty of time to work on her business plan (or help explain why the witless three have done so little research).

Is Pip the slightest bit interested in the project? I'm not sure that she has contributed anything to date.

I think you mean ' How is Phoeble supporting herself?'.

Is Pip the slightest bit interested in the project? I'm not sure that she has contributed anything to date.
That's massively unfair. David and Ruth have She has contributed all of at least 2% of the acreage needed.
I think that her main contribution is being window-dressing. Phoebe can say that her rewilding project is a valid concept because they have a Real Farmer Who Knows About These Things on board.

Phoeble
Another one who’s changed her personality. She was driven and determined to get to Oxford. What for? It’s not an end in itself. I’m surprised she’s not getting all kinds of support to find her next steps.

And ‘signing on’? I’ve not heard that expression for years!

Can Phoebe "sign on"? She is a healthy young woman in possession of a degree and a driving licence? Don't the Job Centre have to make her apply for jobs?

It's absurd we haven't heard from Roy about this. Roy is a worrier and for all his faults is a very hard worker himself. There's no way he would remain silent. And why isn't Phoebe speaking to Alice and Debbie if she really has no idea what to do next.

She doesn’t appear to be actively seeking work, so not Jobseekers Allowance.

It's a mystery. Nobody in Ambridge claims benefits. Nobody collect their pension.

Nobody collects their pension.

D’you mean physically, from the Post Office? Pensions are paid into people’s bank accounts nowadays.

I suppose they do.