Thread #105: Curtains for Emma, Hilda - Joe? Red carpet for June Spencer on her 100th birthday, we hope! Discuss the rich tapestry of Ambridge life here.

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Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to LillianGish and BuckingFrolics for ideas for this thread title. I went with the less Rabelaisian of LG's ideas!

On 14th June it will be the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who has played Peggy Woolley since 1951. I hope the BBC has a lot of special tributes lined up to celebrate this remarkable achievement.

And the moisturiser was too expensive for Alice fgs

So what if it was? That doesn't entitle her to snoop in Gnasher's room and to sample it. Pip and Alice were horrible.

It's a plot device - now Alice and Pip know something. I think this has potential.

Speaking as someone who has never moisturised in his life, can I ask if it possible to tell that a moisturiser is really good just with one quick application? What marks it out that Pip and Alice could tell straightaway?

DDD - an interesting question. People who care about these things will know all the expensive brands. People like me (and I would expect Pip at least to be more at my end of the spectrum ) would recognise it wasn't a brand stocked in a supermarket ... but wouldn't have a clue if that made it expensive, or simply ALDI's own brand. Brand snobbery only works among the few who aspire to the brand.

I don't believe an expensive one will feel any better than a cheap ones - a feeling of greasiness, not sinking into the skin quickly, can be a feature of expensive as well as cheap, or so the few reviews I've read would suggest.

For the purposes of a plot device the expensive moisturiser could have been left on a bathroom shelf, allowing it to be found by Pip and Alice without the need for them to be even more vacuous and unlikeable than they usually are.

The only expensive moisturiser I've ever used is Creme de la Mer. I would expect Alice to recognise that brand. It feels awful btw - like a greasy Nivea.

I do know a little bit about lotions and potions, as someone who used to make them, which included a lot of research, and probing a friendly cosmetic chemist for information.

With expensive brands, you're paying for the name and the packaging, and the aspiration. They may well have some of the more expensive ingredients in them, like rose otto, but they will be in very small amounts. The ingredients listing gives a clue to that, as the ingredients have to be listed in order, with the greatest amount of an ingredient at the top of the list. In lotions, that is usually water (Aqua in the INCI nomenclature), and that will be a large percentage, like 75%. Shea butter, might be 4th or 5th on the list, but it may still only be something like 5%, but they'll still harp on about it containing shea butter.

The ingredients used for the majority of a lotion, will be a mix of stabilisers, emulsifiers, ingredients to give a nice "skin feel", etc, and they're pretty cheap, especially for the big cosmetic companies who buy in massive bulk. So even I could make a gorgeous lotion or body butter, that cost about £2.50 per 100g, plus the cost of a nice jar @ around £1.50, so the base price is less than a fiver, yet once I've added other costs like advertising, R&D, plus my profit margin, I could sell it for £15+.

I don't make them any more, due to disability, so if I buy any face creams, I just buy the Aldi ones, because they're just as good as something costing £89.

Back to TA, Pip and Alice were being incredibly intrusive, especially going in her drawers and wardrobe.

Sounded like the party cost a hefty amount, considering they laid on the booze themselves. All the parties I've ever been to, you take along your own drinks. And they bought the food from street food vendors, so that would have cost a fair whack, even if they got a discount for ordering bulk. And how much did the barman cost? Oh, and the flag, wasn't it a full size one? They're not cheap either.
Still, it all no doubt, went on the credit cards.

Pat's idea is good, but it won't go down well, and might lead to Gnasher running away again, or causing a rift in the family, with Tom on her side, because he's blindly in love and couldn't conceive of her wanting to get as much as she can in the event of a divorce. But she will, because she's got debt, which will no doubt be massive debt by then.

Sorry about the novel length post!

There is no guarantee at all that Gnasher will get a big divorce settlement.

So far as Gnasher's debts unless it is a joint credit card Tom has no responsibility although if there are jointly owned assets then thecredit cardcompany could go after his interest in them. This means assets jointly owned by him and Gnasher- not jointly owned by him and Pat , Tony and Helen. This won't of course stop the script writers re-writing the law.

While Pat's not wrong to be concerned about Gnasher, and she doesn't know the half of it, isn't she out of order to be thinking of proposing a post-nup? 1. None of her business 2. Stable door/horse bolted.

However it will cause lots of angst, which will fill out the plot lines.

Re the moisturiser - I used to be of the opinion that it doesn’t matter what you pay until I tried a La Prairie Skin Caviar one which costs over €400 for 50ml. I tried it on the back of my hand in a shop once (because I couldn’t believe the price) and it was incredible. This this is the type of cream I was imagining Pip and Alice trying last night. If I found that cream in a friend’s bathroom my reaction would be exactly the same as Alice - OMG have you seen this, just try a little bit. That’s the level of extravagance they were signalling to me - I imagine Jenny or Lillian probably use something like Clarins that can easily be over €70 for 50ml (my own mum sometimes gets that for a treat) so it needs to be something much more expensive. I wouldn’t expect Pip to have the first clue about expensive face cream, but Alice would - so all in all a very realistic scene for me.

wouldn’t expect Pip to have the first clue about expensive face cream, but Alice would - so all in all a very realistic scene for me

I found their reactions realistic but not using them as the snoopers - neither have ever been especially snoopy. Susan would have been more likely to accidentally open the bathroom cupboard or walk into the bedroom "by mistake".

I tried [La Prairie] it on the back of my hand in a shop once (because I couldn’t believe the price) and it was incredible

How was it incredible, just a nice feel? Whenever I've read reviews of moisturisers/cosmetics the comments are entirely consistente with Motoko - good and bad at each price point with Creme de la Mer getting a consistent drubbing.

Not sure if that all still applies to the type with magic ingredients (retinol, the acid beginning with 'h', exfoliants etc).

They were surely applying moisturiser over make up? (I assume Alice wears make up and Pip probably would for a night out if not day to day.) I’m not a big make up wearer but I’m reasonably certain my boots brand stuff wouldn’t hack having anti wrinkle cream smeared on it. (Again - was assuming it was being applied to face owing to Alice’s comments about wrinkles disappearing.)

I felt that scene was quite clever in that the listener knew “something would happen” but the tension was whether Gnasher would find them or whether they would uncover her...

Whatever the topic, it's amazing how this thread delivers. Thanks, everyone, especially Motoko and LilG, for the insights on moisturiser. EUR400 for 50ml! "Skin caviar" ? It's a whole nother world.

I guess if Alice and Pip had had a bit to drink they might be a bit less restrained about rummaging in someone's drawers.

Did Natasha have a house with the ex boyfriend? They were together for 10 years so it seems likely. I am guessing her spending is not a new habit. I wonder what happened in that relationship, did they lose the house for example.

How was it incredible, just a nice feel? Just to be absolutely clear there is NO WAY I would ever shell out €400+ on face cream, but next time you are in the vicinity of a La Prairie counter ask to try the Caviar Luxe cream. I’m very sceptical about this kind of stuff, but at the risk of sounding like an advert, it was easily absorbed and the back of my hand was visibly softer and smoother in a Wow this stuff is amazing kind of way. DDD - even you could try on the pretext of checking it out for your DW (I always do a diversion on my way through Galeries Lafayette in the vain hope they may give me a free sample) But even if money was no object, I just can not imagine ever being able to justify spending that kind of money on a face cream which is why I thought last night’s scene was so illustrative of Natasha’s profligacy and extravagance.

I don't understand Pat and her post-nup idea.
Does such a thing exist and how does it work? A pre-nup says "unless you sign this agreement, I won't marry you". A post-nup says " unless you sign this agreement, I won't ... what?" Is the ultimatum "I won't stay married to you", in which case the other party gets precisely the thing (divorce settlement) you were trying to avoid.
Also considering that Tony has spent all week moaning about Peggy and money causing a family bust up, it would be a bit hypocritical for P&T and money to cause a different family bust up. It's none of Pat's business. She can re-write her will if she wants but she can't interfere between TomnTash.

Christ, I've just had a look at the ingredients list, which is as long as my arm (just over 80 ingredients)! It's got a few plant extracts, but they're quite far down the list, and the rest is just stuff to stabilise the ph, thicken it, give it a nice skin feel, humectants, etc. If you're worried about using anything with parabens, this has 4 of them.

I don't see anything particularly special about this, that would justify the price, although I've been out of the game for about a decade now, and not being a chemist, I've forgotten a lot, and also haven't kept up to date with the latest new ingredients.

But basically, I wouldn't buy it, if I had the money!

TA It did seem odd that Pip was nosing around, but I could definitely see Alice being like that. She has more in common with her mother in law than she realises.
Was Susan the first guest, seeing as she was pretty tipsy when the episode started, (and P&T weren't there yet, so it couldn't have been late)? I thought it was off when Gnasher persuaded Susan to have another Mojito, after she'd said she was on the soda water to settle her stomach.

How much do people think that party cost?

found their reactions realistic but not using them as the snoopers I must confess that if I had been in that situation and seen such a pot of cream out on the bathroom shelf my reaction would have been - OMG have you seen what she uses? Just try a bit on the back of your hand (not on a fully made up party face - personally the back of my hand is wrinkly than my face anyway so the effects are more obvious) - much as I have urged people on here to test out on their next trip to a beauty counter. I’m imagining the cream was on view - not tucked away in the back of a drawer.

DDD - even you could try on the pretext of checking it out for your DW

Next time I'm near a La Prairie counter whats a La Prairie counter? I'll, er, try that. I'm not sure I'd be able to resist saying "so this caviar, does it go nicely on crackers?"

I wouldn't buy it, if I had the money! And that’s exactly the point - as complete and utter extravagance it’s hard to think of a better example. For people who have more money than sense - Or in Natasha’s case people who have a lot of credit cards.

I just can not imagine ever being able to justify spending that kind of money on a face cream

Yes - its a lot of money to spend on face cream.

which is why I thought last night’s scene was so illustrative of Natasha’s profligacy and extravagance

Yes although we don't know exactly what it was - when I was in my 20s I would have consided most of the big name brands beautiful but over priced. Now I look at them more closely

Actually thinking about it - Gnasher's first career/successes were in cosmetics and marketing. I wouldn't be surprised if she still gets cheap stuff/samples from vendors. An acquaintance of mine who was a make up artist still does although she hasn't run it as a major business for years.

“which is why I thought last night’s scene was so illustrative of Natasha’s profligacy and extravagance”
But depressingly stereotypical. TASWAMA.