#102: Fatted calf is off the menu - will the Easter Bunny save Lower Loxley's bacon, or will there be egg on Russ's face? Will Tom's sausage business get the chop? Join us here to discuss The Archers!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title, principally Dumdedumdedum and MikeUniformMike on this occasion.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business: will Helen's new cheese be a success? Will Kate succeed in keeping her visiting Brummies under control? Will Pip, Toby, Tom and Natasha fall into the slurry pit, leaving Rosie to be brought up by Anthony Head Robin Fairbrother? Will we ever hear Lee again, and will he casually drop in a mention of his fine collection of framed Bruce Lee posters?

I know Will behaves like a Neanderthal. But. If you came backs and found your 13 year old child being “manhandled” by a 16 year old, I suspect you might be a bit cross too......

I don’t understand how Tom can unilaterally decide not to have his own pigs without talking to Helen, he has made a decision that effects the whole Bridge Farm business without showing the other partners his plans. Is Jazzer an employee or self-employed? I don’t know enough about employment law to know whether Jazzer as an employee would have a case for constructive dismassal.

Everything Pat said last night was true. This has been on the cards since Natasha first uttered the words that the pigs seemed to be an awful lot of trouble (the inconvenience of being married to a farmer who actually had to do some farming) - no chrystal ball required. I loved the way Tony consoled her about John - and what he said about seeing Johnny in the yard was so true (more evidence that he is the true heir. The pigs can go because John is back). Natasha’s annoyance with Tom made it all about her as usual - never mind that Pat is still so affected by the death of her son, Natasha has been made to feel awkward. Someone asked what else doesn’t Natasha know about Bridge Farm - well quite a lot I would imagine. Plenty of room for her to put her foot in it - Helen’s anorexia, Henry’s conception, Greg’s suicide any number of details about Knob. More to the point, what else doesn’t Tom know about Natasha? And while I hope this development will eventually be Jazzer’s making, we shouldn’t forget that in real life (which of course TA is the loss of the pigs (“Ma gerls”) would absolutely devastating for him. He can’t afford to buy them, he’d have to rent land to keep them on etc etc. Pat’s quite right - he won’t want to be filling veg boxes. He doesn’t have family to fall back on - how will he react? All in all an excellent episode fully reaping the dramatic effects of Tom’s marrying in haste.

Oh TheMadGardener I LOVE the Aelfpig pic [grin

And YY re NasherNTom. She is leading the fool around by his gonads.

The 🔮 predicts woe, woe and thrice woe

I really don’t get Natasha. Does she have a masterplan or doesn’t she? She switches between booting her in laws out into the snow and super-empath in seconds. Can’t decide whether she is a fascinatingly written complex character or whether the writers are getting the index cards mixed up.....

I agree about Natasha *

I’m not sure whether it’s more common place than a master plan. As Tony said, your partner does change you. Tom is quite changeable anyway. They don’t know each other and how could they? She’s not a farmer and they are all on the farm in various ways.

He can’t keep the pigs for Jazzer. Realistically Rex couldn’t buy them so who will save Jazzer? Ambridge’s magic business fairy? Could Pat and Tony set up a separate business like the app!

Robin will buy them for Rex and help him set up his piggery. Jazzer will follow his girls and be head honcho.

Oooo maybe 🔮

I think Natasha’s master plan is all about Natasha. Because she is her own boss in a sole enterprise she seems to think Tom is as well - and now thinks she should be his boss. I think what this illustrates (and forgive me if I’m repeating myself, I can’t be bothered to go back and check) is what happens when children who are part of a family business get married. If you don’t approve of your child’s choice of partner you can generally try and do what Tony was suggesting and be happy they are happy. If you don’t approve of their choice in extravagant cars or holidays, if you don’t think they work enough or should be working more - whatever - you can do your best to ignore it and leave them to it (though let’s not forget Pat already tried this with Knob). If your child works in the family business and their new partner is trying to affect this, it is much more complicated. Natasha is not to boss, but is behaving as if she is with she and Tom taking unilateral decisions and then announcing them to the rest of the family (and not even all of the rest of the family) last night. I hope Jazzer hands in his notice as soon as hears Tom’s plans and leaves him to it. I’m sure Jim won’t kick him out straightaway andin the meantime (before he plots Ambridge domination) maybe he can pick up some shifts at the pig unit as a stop-gap. Let Tom move into sausage production and then, in the fullness of time, let Johnny (the only remaining farmer) take over the farm (by then Helen will be a champion cheesemaker thanks to Johnny and the .Monties). And future generations on this thread will eventually have to ask: “How exactly is Tom connected to Bridge Farm?” In much the same way people inquire about Aunty Cardboard’s connections now.

i don’t understand how Tom can unilaterally decide not to have his own pigs without talking to Helen, he has made a decision that effects the whole Bridge Farm business without showing the other partners his plans

They aren't his pigs. They are the farm's pigs. The storyline is complete nonsense.

Is Jazzer an employee or self-employed? I don’t know enough about employment law to know whether Jazzer as an employee would have a case for constructive dismassal

He is an employee.

I was sad curious enough to go looking in relation to the Will/Ruairi thing. Scrappydappydoo gets the Crystal Ball award on this one:

I think we’re heading towards a mix up with Mia having a crush and Will jumping to conclusions and getting aggressive and angry with Rauri.

I don't hate Pat, Bert. But there's something possessive and exclusive and just not right about her relationship with her children. And all this difficult, fused sort of love and devotion hasn't helped either of them become very effective, functioning adults - well, adults with massive blind spots and lack of insight, who apparently have to be kept close to home or things go horribly wrong for them. And why must Tom keep pigs because John did? Wouldn't you want your surviving children, also affected by the loss of John (or is the grief only Pat's?) to grow up more freely than that?

Yes, particularly as the whole reason that Tom gave for his semi-breakdown leading to the jilting of Kirsty was that he felt constantly in John’s shadow!

Do the pigs necessarily have to go because Tom doesn't want to deal with them any more? Isn't it open to Pat, Tony and Johnny to say they'll take over?

I agree with your analysis of Pat BBB, John’s death changed everything for everyone at Bridge Farm. She was spot on when she said Natasha was pulling the strings and asked Tony if he thought N was pushing Tom into it - we know this is true (dramatic irony), Tony doesn’t and is still prepared to give N the benefit of the doubt. Bridge Farm has never been about profit before everything - it has always prided itself on being the ethical and caring side of farming and Tony and and Pat have built it up from scratch sticking to these principles. It is the antithesis of Home Farm or Borchester Land. Pat cares about the past and John’s part in that - I can see why she finds it hard to move forward and erase all his traces. Tony did a wonderful job of explaining how that could never happen, but Natasha needs to understand that she has not married into a business where making her a millionaire is the main priority. It’s not her business and it’s not up to her.

“And why must Tom keep pigs because John did? ”
Oh, absolutely he shouldn’t. I just think Pat gets a raw deal on here!

I can’t remember how Bridge Farm is set up. I though Tom and Helen were in charge now-didn’t Pat and Tony retire a while ago? So Tom surely should have discussed the pig business with Helen first?

And incidentally, when was the last time someone milked those poor neglected goats?

It is surely perfectly understandable that Pays behaviour towards her children is affected by Johns death. Also the utter trauma of what happened to Helen, it's not surprising if she makes mistakes in light of this.
I think they are deciding what to do with Natasha, it could go either way, before they went into full villian mode it was feasible that Rob just turned out to be a bit of an arse rather than full blown abusive monster. I think the sw are playing a similar game with Natasha.

Wot BBB said. Except it should have been "hasn't helped all three of them ..."
It is perfectly possible to have one or two DC go wrong due to Nature but in Pat'n'Tone's case it's looking increasingly likely to be due to Nurture.

The burning question me is whether JOHN himself would necessarily stuck with the pigs himself decade after decade. He was supposed to be quite dynamic. He might have moved out of pigs years ago, had he lived.

Johnnie is the obvious John-legacy on BF.

I also don't understand how Tom can just decide to stop doing the pigs. It's not as if he actually does much of the grunt work with them, Jazzer does that. And if they're part of the farm, surely the whole family should have a say?

I also don't understand his reasoning. Surely it's better to raise your own pigs, rather than buy in the meat from another source, even if it is organic?

If I were Pat or Tony, I'd certainly have words with Tom, (on his own) to get to the bottom of it, and ask to see his costings.

Also the utter trauma of what happened to Helen, it's not surprising if she makes mistakes in light of this. This. Pat wasn't interventionist enough in that relationship - she should have poked her nose in more and asked more questions. Think the closeness of the Bridge Farm Archers is not only down to Pat - the death of John drew them together collectively. They were all affected by it. Also by "doggedly independent" Helen's anorexia and Tony's near death experience when he was crushed by the cows. The children have not flown far from the nest because of the business as much as anything - that is their livelihood. Also in Helen's case because as a single mother her parents have been an important fixture in her children's lives. Tom went to Canada at Knob's behest - but at the end of the day he is not hugely qualified to go and work elsewhere and the sausage business which has worked hard to build up is on the farm. I think it is unfair to blame Pat - what should she have done?

Natasha speaking to Jazzer like that was the big red flag. She doesn't know where the boundaries are.

I don't think this is P&Ts fault. John's death affected all of them. Helen was awful back then, and Tom was desperate to step into his shoes.

Tom totally told Natasha about John and the pigs - she's gaslighting him, right? And maybe me too as I'm not sure what's going on anymore.

I think the pigs are Tom's. How much would they be worth? I hope he doesn't sell them off and pay off Natasha's debts.

I think it is unfair to blame Pat - what should she have done?
I think that we may have mentioned therapy once or a billion times twice.