The Archers - Freddie is getting OUT: will Russ hop it? Helen is falling DOWN: is Lee still in the frame? Tom is heading UP: will Natasha be the boost his sausage needs? (Thread no. 101

[DadDadDad]

We're still here and still discussing TA (The Archers). We welcome newcomers and old hands, so if you have a question or a point of view, please dive in. No spoilers - if you've seen info on future storylines, there's a separate Radio Addicts thread for that.

I loved all the name changes on the last thread. Don't forget to change back! (If you want to).

Who's going to get Russ out of LL? Freddie? Lily? Elizabeth? Or is it Freddie who will head off?

Suggesting someone may be on the spectrum because their social skills aren’t brilliant is rather jumping to conclusions. Is it really considered offensive now to say ‘you have an unusual sounding surname, where are your parents from?’ Alastair should have twigged that he’s about as Swedish as Tom is Welsh earlier in the day, but. I harm in asking surely?

I THINK that this tweet from Keri Davies is suggesting that Be a Jakob was deliberately written as on the spectrum for autism awareness week? twitter.com/keridavies/status/1113058563415400448?s=21

Not “Be a Jakob”. Just Jakob.

Interesting! Was just discussing neuro-diversity training for all with my friend today.

He’s just a rude arse. That first exchange with Alasdair revealed him to be a rude arse.

Sorry but if that's true, so far it hasn't been a very nuanced portrayal of a person with autism.

“While Freddie coming home is obviously a good thing...for you”

Is it really considered offensive now to say ‘you have an unusual sounding surname, where are your parents from?’

Obviously it's dependent on context but, yes, it's very often a micro-aggression designed to put someone in their place and let them know you consider them inferior to your white, 'English' self. Let's not forget that countless names, considered 'unusual' in tiny, hopeless England, might be shared by hundreds of thousands of people in countries that are not currently the laughing stock of the entire world.

Essentially, as a chat up line at a party it might be merely weak; as an opening gambit ftom someone who clearly considers themselves your professional senior - it's pretty unacceptable.

Well, I must be a total cunt then, and worked with total cunts, of all colours and nationalities, because in the numerous multicultural and multinational organisations I've worked in, asking people about their origins was a pretty standard ice-breaker. Who knew, among all those educated and open-minded people of different races, that we were committing micro-aggressions upon each other, and considering each other inferior?

I think race matters in this context. Many, many of my professional introductions start with a conversation about my first and last names, which are evidently not English and rather difficult to pronounce. As soon as I open my mouth it’s clear I’m a native English speaker, and that combination generates curiosity. This always leads on to where my parents were from and where I was born and raised etc. I actually quite enjoy these conversations and find it quite a useful icebreaker, but I am white, have one English parent, and don’t feel in any way othered or that the implication is I have less of a right be here. I’m always interested in other people’s unusual names and do often ask, but I would never ask a non-white person where they are from, that’s like Racism 101.

Cross posted with BBB, had to make tea half way through my post.

I’ve also worked in a large multinational in an office with 70+ nationalities and in that context I did often ask, regardless of race. But that’s been because I was talking to fairly senior people who were generally being very well paid to come to the UK HQ for a period of time. In that context there was no question that I thought they were in some way inferior. Also they had often worked in multiple countries so it would come up in the context of a conversation about where their career had taken them.

I didn’t notice George calling you a cunt, DDD, she’s just telling you about her experience.

BBB, not DDD.

Bet that startled DDD
I also have a European parent and an unusual name. I am asked about it about once a week. I enjoy talking about it and happily tell total strangers of how my mother was a language student doing a year at a European university. She met my dad, dropped out of university, married him in Europe, then came back to tell my grandmother. I regularly tell my children never to follow my mothers example.
I think people are right in that race is a factor, but I don't think in this case Alistair committed a hideous error. In fact I found his question about moving to ambridge much more irritating.

The question about Ambridge was bizarre, I assume triggered by his immense discomfort about not being able to get a conversation going.

I'm going to have to lie down! I might expect that kind of language on AIBU, but on TA threads...

I suppose it's a bit of a rite of passage to be called a cunt on MN, although as it was an accident, I guess it doesn't really count.

Technically, I was accidentally suggesting that you were not calling someone else a cunt

Either way, sorry, I know swearing isn’t your thing

No, wait, I was accidentally suggesting that you were not being called a cunt.

thislido - make up your fucking mind!

Whatever the reason for Jakob's lack of social skills I'm looking forward to hearing him interact with other characters. I reckon Lovell James have shipped him off to Ambridge deliberately. No manger side manner. He might be the kind of vet version of Doc Martin ( not that I ever watch that or have series link to it at all).
Is swearing allowed on the thread now? Just checking as there's seems to be a lot of repetition of a certain word, gave me the giggles.

I'm sure you're not deliberately missing my point BorsetshireBlueBalls (And I'm reluctant to point out that if the receiver of such micro-aggressions recognises then as such, it is poor form to dismiss their experience ...)

Clearly if you're at a UN party where everyone is a different nationality to everyone else then sure - you can all happily question away. If it's a tenancy interview somewhere around Middle Temple, or an Oxfam dominated party at a manor house in deepest rural Oxfordshire (not random ) then, yes, it either patronising and othering, or a desire to exoticise and turn the victim into an object of entertainment and exploration for you.

Obviously the case is different for the not quite Swedish enough Jakob ...

Nooooo DDD, it's all wrong when it comes from you

@DadDadDad Oh I see it is. Good to know

Fabulous lido & D3 !

(Should add, the examples I've given are from decades ago. No one does that sort of thing in the wrong context now ..)

Was swearing ever forbidden? this is MN where you can swear all you like!

I have a strange relationship with swearing. I don't find swearwords that shocking, I'm not overly bothered if my children swear (more concerned with any disrespect if they swear at me or others), think it's silly and patronising when a newspaper stars out certain letters, as if when we see f**k we don't immediately fill in the blanks in our heads. I see them as a colourful part of language with a useful function (I don't see their use as a sign of limited vocabulary: eloquent people can use them very effectively).

But all the same I'm very inhibited about using swearwords myself (never swear in front of my children, very rarely in front of anyone else). I guess I'm just a bit of a buttoned-up Englishman who can't bring myself to swear (without a big conscious effort).

Sorry, way off the topic of TA.

Where do you think the Ruari / Mia maths story is going? I'm all for a storyline with a bit of trigonometry and algebraic manipulation. Presumably, I take it Mia is a bit smitten with Ruari?

That was very gracious, George.

The only personal examples I can think of as a white person are when, in a professional context, attention has suddenly been drawn to the fact that I am a woman, for example a man apologising for swearing in front of me in a meeting. I found it deeply disconcerting that in a split second I could go from being, at least in my head, just another professional getting on with their job, to suddenly being aware that in the eyes of the other I am specifically a woman, with all the prejudices that brings with it. (The same may be true for men but obviously I can't speak to that experience).

It's someone calling attention to a difference that doesn't affect the way I do my job, making me wonder if they do see it as a significant difference. In the swearing example, at the very least they are seeing me as someone they have to modify their behaviour for. That kind of thing happens very rarely, I imagine it would be rather wearing if it happened frequently.

Ruairi and Mia - we heard them before, didn't we, when Ruairi gave Mia a lift on his bike - Clarrie asked about it and Mia got very defensive. Definitely some potential I'd say!