Thread 99 (yes, 99!): Join us for spirited discussions of The Archers and its Top Blokes, whether you're Team Elizabeth (low spirits), Team Kate (Spiritual Home) or Team Toby (spirits =gin)

[Bittermints]

Thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit. Thanks also to all those who contributed to the thread title.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

So, to business. What a fantastic two-hander. Massive BOOP points to Alison Dowling, the scriptwriter and director (and the therapist). I had more than a small tear in my eye listening to that.

I'm another one with a vote of thanks to chemenger for all that information on the last thread about distilling. I should know some of that because I went on a tour of the whisky distillery near where my parents live but I've forgotten most of it except how delicious the end product is.

Jesus that scene with lee and Helen was so artificial and stilted - the whole outburst of laughing " just because I'm so happy" and Lee's craven "shall I remove the posters" pathetic efforts to impress her I'm sorry but it just screams bad scriptwriting. Then when Helen has her freak out Lee roars at her to sit back down which is totally out of character for him (unless he's meant to be a wolf in sheep's clothing) the whole thing was so utterly clunky and Helen is a PITA anyway, I wish they would just write her out.

Lilifer, say what you think, please don't mince your words
Yes, I thought the "just because I'm so happy" bit was ridiculous. I didn't really understand what was supposed to be happening at the end of the episode, I was too busy trying to work out what the song that upset her so much was!
Also, has Joe Grundy had a real Personality Transplant so late in life?

Utterly ridiculous that the exact same song would be playing at exactly the moment when they were just getting amorous. Soapy bollocks. I was expecting Helen to have some sort of attack of nerves and possibly bottle it but they disn’t Need to manufacture it to that extent. (Although it would have been amusing if he had served tuna or custard).

I didn’t think that Helen gave Lee enough time to turn it off and telling her to sit back down surely is step one in placating her, so whoever said upthread that he didn’t act in character was being a bit harsh.

thislido I don’t recall ever saying she wanted to move away from tech into sales and she is known to be terrible in front of clients! Also she has not had nearly enough time getting hands on experience to be making that sort of move yet. I do know from my own professional experience in an industry not too dissimilar to yours that many client-facing jobs are done by people who will stress about everything regardless of how they are treated but something about the way they portray Alice seems worse than that.

I agree that playing that piece of music with its specific asociations at that dramatic moment is fine for Wagnerian opera, but it’s over-egging the custard it for a drama which is meant to be realistic.

Coincidences do happen, so I don't mind this as a plot device. I have seen someone have a panic attack very like Helen's when triggered by a memory of her abusive ex, her reaction was authentic.

The stilted conversation was, I imagine, due to each wondering if they might DTD.

Lee would have to be a very special person to help Helen come to terms with her aversion to sex and other traumas/fears . He needs to know her whole history first, there aren't many men who could cope with it all

Jessie I didn’t realise she was awful in front of clients, what did I miss?!

Re the stress, I think people like that keep it well hidden. I can think of a perfectly competent friend and colleague who went through a period of throwing up every morning because she was so stressed but no one at work would ever have guessed.

I’m ok with the coincidence. When I moved out my now ex-husband insisted on unnecessarily and passive aggressively “helping”. I let him because I felt guilty about leaving. When we were in Argos getting a new kettle (single-speed), the song that he has always thought of as ‘our song’ (which I’d never liked) came on. It wasn’t even recent or a particular classic. It was excruciating.

So, will Helen assume she's blown it with Lee and despair of ever being capable of a relationship while leaving Lee in the dark, or will she find a way to explain to Lee and will he cope?

I fear Helen is not very good at opening up. Maybe someone else will fill Lee in?

Doesn't he read the papers?

That's what I think DDD, she'll be too mortified to explain what happened, so will refuse to talk to him and will end the "relationship". She's been trying to get out of it all along, even on Thursday, she kept saying to him that she didn't mind if he wanted to cancel, because he'd be tired at the end of the week. He had to keep reassuring her that he wanted to see her, and cook for her.

She's obviously not ready to have another relationship yet. It seems she needs some heavy duty therapy to get over what happened with Rob, before she tries again.

Have not listened to Friday’s episode properly yet but just wanted to say I found Tim Oatmeal ‘s compliments to Emma particularly slimy - ‘clever as well as pretty’ (not envy).

I know I'm several posts behind but just to clarify the TPO thing (I am a councillor myself) in our county we have a tree officer who would submit the TPO and who also makes comments on any trees that need pruning etc hth

Listening to the film I'm laughing at the fact it doesn't seem to have occurred to Lily and Russ that the stress of their relationship is one of the things that have made Elizabeth ill.

And it makes for odd listening. Because they have to talk to each other - saying the most unbelievable things. Elizabeth (in her own home) offers to lay the table. Russ replies "That'll be grand." As if she's his new au pair ...

This TPO business is Fausty/Oatey doing the 'testing of boundaries' that I'm always reading about on MN - isn't it?

Yes and (sorry if this has been mentioned already) why is Natasha not getting married in her home town in Wales? That's the norm surely?

So.... where will the Grundy's go to live and who will move into Grarnge Farm?

winces at painful memory of welsh matching tattoos

I predict Natasha will royally fuck over the family, with increasingly wild and unproven ideas at family farm meetings while Tom defends her, then she'll screw over Tom, who won't see it until it's gone, and all he's left with is that stupid tattoo. Hannah will probably try to thump her at some point.

I still can't believe Pat gave away Helen's gift (bracelet) to Hannah and that Helen didn't kick off more.

Just thinking about Lee, if Helen does tell him about Rob and he copes with this , then it does not at all correspond with the character the scriptwriters have painted so far. He comes across as fairly immature - he admitted himself that coping with the reality of a family was difficult for him, going to the gym instead of helping at home, the posters on the wall etc. I just don't believe he would have the maturity to cope with the aftermath of Rob. I know I wouldn't.

I can't believe Pat thought a solitary bath bomb was an adequate gift!

He comes across as fairly immature I think his naievety is what attracts Helen to him.

ADarkandStormyKnight It has already been predicted (by MysticBore™️ no less) that the Grundys will move into the cottage currently occupied by Jennydarling and Brine and they will move into Grange Farm.

Sorted! As buyers?

EthelFechan is that what she was giving Hannah before she gave her an expensive special jewellery gift from her own daughter?

Maybe she is just shit at presents.

I think that Lizzie offering to set the table is her indicating that she's joining the 'normal' world of housework etc. which she was ignoring when she was depressed. Russ was being encouraging not patronising.

Sorted! As buyers? No, renting - at least initially. It will all come about by a chance conversation (possibly at Soosan's dinner party?) when the Aldridge's will learn that Ed'n'Em are setting up on their own but that this means the Elder Grundys will have to move out of Grange Farm.

The swap will follow. Longer term, the Aldridge's will, of course, eventually return to Home Farm, where Jenny will spend her twilight years repairing the depradations wrought by the Ghastly Gills.